When I saw Bella's e-mail I felt a
sparkle.
About a month later she entered the studio for our in- person
consultation and color test. Ten minutes in I knew we would become friends.
Sometimes people have just the sense of humor that feels like
a warm steamy shower on a cool day, and quirks you immediately adore. Add some Eastern European roots for what feels like a solid and somewhat unique thread of relating, and queerness, of course.
Oh, and also she is just brilliant. And one of my favorite things on humans are our brains.
Listen to us discuss being Eastern European, and queer, and
her talking about also being Black. Bella used to do hair and then went to school, started as pre-med and became a chemist and is now developing drugs and making such things as vaccines. We had a
great conversation about the Covid vaccine and what scientists would like you to know.
This conversation is had with soothing voices and is very,
actually, comforting. Enjoy!
Episode transcript
Micah RiotHost00:00
What
is
your
name,
bella?
Is
that
all
the
name
that
you
want
to
give?
Yes,
how
old
are
you?
I
am
34.
And
how
would
you
identify
yourself
with
any
kind
of
identity
markers
you'd
like
to
provide?
BellaGuest00:18
I
am
a
30-something
queer
black
femme.
Micah RiotHost00:25
With
the
perfect
skin
for
color
tattoos.
BellaGuest00:28
Yes,
and
someone
getting
tattooed
by
you.
Micah RiotHost01:03
So
how
did
you
find
me?
BellaGuest01:06
I
think
on
Instagram,
but
a
very
long
time
ago.
Tell
me
about
that,
I
don't
know.
I
think
you
just
came
up
on
my
feed
and
I
was
like,
oh,
I
like
this
person's
work.
And
then
I
just
kind
of
like
watched
it
evolve
over
the
years
and
then
I
was
like,
eventually
I'm
going
to
get
a
tattoo
from
this
person.
But
I
was
like
you
know,
a
student,
I
was
going
to
community
college
and,
yeah,
couldn't
afford
any
tattoo
and
I
had
a
tattoo
I
didn't
like
love
that
I
wanted
and
had
an
idea
for
and
your
work
looked
perfect
for
it.
So
I
just
waited.
And
then
eventually,
I
think
yeah,
mid,
early
mid
last
year
I
was
like,
oh,
yeah,
that
person.
Micah RiotHost01:46
Cool,
yeah.
And
then
when
you
emailed
me,
you
were
like,
what
did
you
say?
You
were
like
I've
been
like
stalking
your
work,
admiring
your
work,
or
something
like
that
for
a
bunch
of
years.
And
I
was
like,
wow,
that's
so
cool
that
you've
been
a
fan
for
a
while.
02:05
Which
is
just
a
weird
concept
to
me.
You
know
because,
like
I
get
that
when
you're
doing
something
creative
and
you
put
it
out
online
and
you
have
people
following
you
that
you
don't
know
that
that
happens.
But
it's
just
such
a
weird
concept
Like
it
continues
to
be
and
no
matter
how
long
I've
been
doing
this,
that's
exciting.
BellaGuest02:20
What
else
scares
me
about
the
internet?
I
know
it's
true.
Like
any
picture
I
post
to
myself,
there's
probably
some
weirdo
who
has
it
printed
out
and
pasted
on
their
like
bathroom
ceilings
or
something
and
they're
like
in
the
ceiling
of
their
bedroom,
probably,
right.
Micah RiotHost02:35
Yeah,
that
is
a
strange
thing
about
the
internet
is
like
you
just
don't
know
where
your
stuff
ends
up.
BellaGuest02:43
Yeah.
Micah RiotHost02:44
And
then
you
get
surprised
and
with
the
podcast
too,
like
people
tell
me
that
they'll
be
like,
oh,
my
friend
listens
to
your
podcast
and
I'll
be.
Like
I
have
no
idea
who
your
friend
is,
which
is
just
like
you
know.
From
my
side
it
doesn't
look
like
I
assume
that
everybody
who
follows
me
or
listens
to
me
or
anything
just
knows
me.
Like
that's
why
they
do
that,
because
they
know
me.
But
that's
not
always
true.
BellaGuest03:05
No,
probably
yeah,
and
the
bigger
it
gets,
you
won't
know.
Most
of
the
people
eventually.
Micah RiotHost03:11
I
mean,
it's
not
getting
bigger.
Yeah
Well,
it
might.
BellaGuest03:16
I've
told
some
people
about
it,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost03:20
Please
do
yeah,
and
then
they'll
hear
you
on
it,
gosh.
BellaGuest03:24
I
can't
listen
to
my
own
voice,
so
I'll
skip
that
one.
Micah RiotHost03:29
But
people
who
you've
told
to
listen
to
should
listen.
BellaGuest03:32
Yeah,
they
probably
will.
Micah RiotHost03:38
So
the
previous
iteration
of
your
back
tattoo
that
we've
been
working
on?
Yes,
tell
me
about
getting
that.
BellaGuest03:45
I
got
it
in
London
when
I
was
17.
And
it
was
like
a
doodle
that
I
drew.
And
then
I
have
a
friend
who's
a
lot
more
creative
than
me
and
he
redrew
it
and
it
was
very
pretty
and
I,
yeah,
I
was
in
London
and
I
was
like
just
visiting
some
family
in
Germany,
but
we
just
stopped
in
London
for
like
a
week
just
to
do
some
traveling.
And,
yeah,
I
went
to
a
tattoo
shop
which
is
kind
of
a
big
tattoo
shop
now.
It's
called
Frith
Street.
Micah RiotHost04:19
I
feel
like
I
follow
artists
from
there,
yeah.
BellaGuest04:23
And
yeah,
it's
just
like
a
kid's
doodle
basically,
and
I
didn't
hate
it,
I
just
it
didn't
really
like
resonate
with
me
anymore,
so
I
was
like
I'll
cover
it
up
with
something
that
feels
more
me.
Micah RiotHost04:37
So
you
like
abstract
art.
Do
you
also
like
to
look
at
it?
BellaGuest04:40
in
museums?
Yeah,
definitely.
I
don't
think
I'm
like,
yeah,
very
sophisticated
like
art
person.
So
if
you,
yeah,
I
just
know
what
I
like.
Yeah.
Micah RiotHost04:52
I
mean,
I
don't
know,
is
anybody
very
sophisticated
art
person?
Some
people
know
a
lot
about
art.
Well,
there's
like
them
knowing,
like
who
this
person
is
and
where
they
came
from
and
how
they
got
to
do
their
style.
But
then
there's
also
like,
just
like
things
make
you
feel
things
or
they
don't.
BellaGuest05:07
Yeah,
I'm
running
purely
on
vibes.
Micah RiotHost05:11
Yes,
I
feel
like
everybody
is,
but
they
don't
admit
it.
Yeah
maybe
Like
including
like
things
like
wine
Perhaps,
but
they
just
don't
admit
it,
they
don't
own
it.
BellaGuest05:25
I'm
quick
to
believe
people.
If
you
tell
me
like
you're
an
expert
on
wine,
I'm
like,
well,
I'm
not.
So
I
believe
you.
Micah RiotHost05:31
What
would
you,
what
would
be
a
thing
that
somebody
was
like
I'm
an
expert
on
this
and
you'd
be
like
are
you
though?
BellaGuest05:39
I
don't
know.
I
guess
things
that
no
one
can
really
be
an
expert
on.
Micah RiotHost05:46
Like
what.
BellaGuest05:47
Religion
Okay,
fair.
Micah RiotHost05:53
Yeah,
like
big,
encompassing
things.
Yeah,
so
you're
talking
about
traveling
in
Europe.
Have
you
spent
a
lot
of
time
in
Europe?
BellaGuest06:02
Yeah,
I
lived
off
and
on.
Yeah,
my
mom
is
from,
for
me,
yugoslavia.
Yeah,
so
I
lived
there
when
I
was
a
kid
and
then
moved
to
well,
I
was
born
in
the
United
States
and
then
the
war
broke
out
in
Yugoslavia
and
my
mom
moved
us
all
there
to
run
like
a
humanitarian
organization
and
she
was
bringing
injured
refugees
back
to
the
United
States
for
medical
treatment.
So
we
were
there
during
several
of
the
war
years
and
then
moved
back
here
to
the
United
States
and
I
just
went
back
to
visit
and
then,
when
I
was
19,
I
moved
back
over
there
for
four
years
or
so.
Why?
06:55
What
were
you
seeking?
I
kind
of
just
wanted
to
travel
for
a
summer
and
then
think
about,
maybe,
what
I
wanted
to
do
with
my
life.
07:05
After
that
I
went
to
beauty
school
and
I
was
working
as
a
hairdresser
and
I
was
like
this
is
not
a
job
I
want
to
do
forever,
forever,
but
it's
something
that
could
put
me
through
school
and
something
I
could
do
while
traveling.
So
it
just
seems
like
a
little
bit
of
money
and
then
I
went
over
there
and
just
didn't
come
back
for
several
years.
Did
you
cut
hair
there?
Yeah,
but
not
like
in
a
salon,
Like
at
people's
homes.
07:31
Yeah,
kind
of
Like
I
started
to
work
in
a
hostel
and
I
was
mostly
just
working
as
the
receptionist
and
the
person
who
takes
people
in
pub
crawls,
and
then
I
had
my
hair
cutting
stuff
and
people
who
are
backpacking
or
need
haircuts.
A
lot
of
people
were
excited
that.
Yeah,
so
it
was
just
kind
of
a
side
gig
over
there.
Micah RiotHost07:53
So
I'm
curious,
if
you
were
doing
that
kind
of
based
on
just
trust,
you
were
meeting
people
and
they
were
like
oh,
you
cut
hair,
like
cut
my
hair
and
you're
not
white,
and
I'm
assuming
most
of
those
people
were
white
Was
there
anything
where
they
were
like
but
your
hair
is
black
hair
and
like
do
you
know
how
to
cut
white
people?
Was
there
anything
like
that
that
you
experienced?
Not
really.
There's
so
many
more
assumptions
in
this
scenario.
BellaGuest08:16
Maybe
kind
of
the
opposite.
Yeah,
like,
if
you
like
people
like
you're
like
oh,
you
have
a
really
difficult
to
work
with
hairstyle,
so
you're
like
an
extra-experts
which
is
not
true,
but
yeah.
Micah RiotHost08:27
I
feel
like
people
mostly
assume
that
people
of
their
own
type
of
hair
or
whatever
would
be
the
expert
in
their
type
of
hair.
BellaGuest08:37
Yeah,
maybe.
Micah RiotHost08:39
But
I
was
just
curious,
like
the
social
dynamics
of
that.
BellaGuest08:42
Yeah,
I
guess
I
never
really
got,
or
maybe
I
just
didn't
pick
up
on
it
or
notice
it.
I
was
never
really
good
at
cutting
hair,
I
just
like.
This
is
the
thing
I
learned
to
do
and,
to
be
honest,
I
think
I
liked
braiding
a
lot
more
and
it
was
easier
because
I
could
just
take
like
one
client
a
day
and
it
would
take
all
day
and
yeah.
Micah RiotHost09:03
What
about
spending
all
that
time
with
one
client?
How's
that?
BellaGuest09:08
Depends
on
the
client,
right?
Yeah,
yeah,
but
I
had.
I
guess
by
the
time
I
was
not
doing
it
anymore,
or
like
phasing
out
of
it
because
I
was
getting
close
to
graduating
from
college.
Most
of
my
clients
were
like
my
friends,
so
yeah.
Micah RiotHost09:25
You
like
work
the
way
that
I
work.
Yeah.
So
you
were
there
for
yourself
for
four
years,
from
19
to
23?
Mmm.
So
he
said
I
don't
know
if
Maybe
I
was
18.
Extrapolating,
from
what
you
said.
BellaGuest09:44
Yeah,
maybe
it
was
three
years.
Micah RiotHost09:46
Yeah,
and
what
was
life
like?
Like
did
you
so
you
were
working
in
this
hostel
and
cutting
hair.
BellaGuest09:55
Yeah,
I
kind
of.
I
don't.
I
was
just
kind
of
like
going
with
whatever
was
thrown
at
me,
like
I
just
like
went
there,
spent
some
time
on
the
beach
and
then
I
went
to,
like
the
capital
city
where
my
family
lives.
I
hang
out
with
them
for
a
bit
and
they
were
a
little
bit
like
controlling
about
like
where
I
travel
and
like
that
I'm
traveling
alone,
and
they
were
like,
you
know,
we
were
your
parents,
who
would
never
let
you
do
this,
and
I'm
like,
well,
you're
not,
so
I'm
leaving,
and
it
just
would
get
really
weird.
So
I
was
like,
well,
I
need
to
like,
if
I'm
going
to
stay
here
for
a
little
bit,
maybe
I
should
get
like
some
temp
housing,
like
you
know,
rent
an
apartment
for
a
month
or
something.
And
I,
yeah,
I
met
some
people
on
couch
surfing
and
we
went
to
a
party
and
then
I
stayed
the
night
at
one
of
their
houses.
We
all
stayed
there
like
just
on
a
big
couch
and
we've
been
friends
ever
since
and
I
eventually
got
an
apartment
with
one
of
them.
Micah RiotHost10:56
That's
awesome.
I
remember
when
couch
surfing
became
a
thing.
BellaGuest10:59
Yeah.
Micah RiotHost11:00
I
was
thinking
a
bit
of
traveling
then
too.
BellaGuest11:02
Yeah,
I
didn't
like
mean
to
use
it
to
actually
couch
surf.
I
just
was
like
I
want
to
hang
out
with
people
who
live
here
that
aren't
like
other
hostile
backpacker
people.
11:14
But
like
local
people,
right
yeah
because,
like
I
feel
like
this
weird
like
half
my
family's
from
here,
so
like,
am
I
a
real
tourist?
But
I
am
here
doing
tourist
stuff,
Like
yeah,
just
want
to
hang
out
with
like
real
people,
and
so
I
used
it
to
kind
of
like
meet
up
with
people
from
the
area
and,
yeah,
have
people
to
go
out
and
party
with.
I
feel
like
couch
surfing
was
also
really
queer
then.
Micah RiotHost11:36
So
I
never
used
that,
I
just
knew
about
it,
but
it
felt
scary
to
me,
yeah,
so
I
didn't
really
use
it.
I
just
kind
of
wanted
to
use
it,
but
I
didn't.
BellaGuest11:46
I
think
I
should
have
been
more
scared
than
I
was,
but
I
got
lucky
because
I
met
up
with
like
a
man,
like
a
guy,
and
he
was
like,
yeah,
let's
meet
up,
we'll
go
to
this
party,
and
I'm
like
a
child
at
him
19.
I'm
like,
totally
sounds
great,
yeah.
And
then
we
meet
up
to
have
like
a
couple
of
drinks
beforehand
and
he
brings
like
several
female
friends
and
he's
like
I
didn't
want
you
to
be
scared.
So
I
think
I
got
really
lucky.
That's
cool.
Micah RiotHost12:10
And
that's
the
guy
you're
still
friends
with.
BellaGuest12:11
Yeah,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost12:14
And
what
was
the
queer
part?
You
said
like
it
was
really
queer.
You
met
a
bunch
of
queer
folks
through
that.
Yeah,
pretty
much.
BellaGuest12:22
Yeah,
they
were
running
kind
of
like
a
gallery,
kind
of
like
a
queer
party
space
in
like
a
squat
house.
It
was
like
what
city
were
you
talking
about,
zogged
up
in
Croatia?
It's
definitely
very
like
crusty
Balkan,
yeah,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost12:45
And
so
you,
but
you
didn't
stay
at
the
squat
you
like.
BellaGuest12:48
No,
no,
I
didn't.
That's
never
been
my
vibe.
Micah RiotHost12:53
But
I
could
see
like
trying
it
out,
just
to
see
what
it
was
like.
BellaGuest12:56
Yeah,
I
mean
I
definitely
would
like
hang
out
with
a
lot
of
those
types
of
folks,
but
I'm
too
much
of
a
brat.
Micah RiotHost13:05
Like
you
need
a
nice
shower
he
means
this
yeah.
I
don't
think
that's
bratty.
I
had
a
little
bit
of
that
too,
yeah,
with
a
bunch
of
crusty
punks
in
a
squat
in
New
York
when
I
was
19.
Yeah,
and
when
did
you
realize
you're
queer?
BellaGuest13:28
I
don't
know.
Micah RiotHost13:31
I
really
don't
know.
BellaGuest13:34
I
think
like
it
was
pretty
normalized
growing
up,
like
not
just
like
I
don't
know
accepted,
but
like
just
normalized.
So
it
was.
I
don't
think
I
ever
like
came
out
to
anyone
in
my
family.
It
was
just
like.
Micah RiotHost13:50
When
did
you
sort
of
come
out
to
yourself
Like
was
there?
I
feel
like,
okay,
when
you're
growing
up
queer,
especially
in
a
place
that
there
are
no
other
visible
queer
people
and
that's
not
a
conversation
that
there's
this
moment
where
you
realize
that
what
you're
experiencing
isn't
what
everybody
else
is
experiencing.
14:07
You
know,
like
the
feelings
I
had,
or
the
sexual
like
young
sexual
feelings
I
had
were
not
like
other
peoples
and
I
didn't
think
about
it
then,
but
then
later,
maybe
in
high
school,
I'd
be
like
oh,
I'm
different
from
like
the
rest
of
these
people.
BellaGuest14:22
Yeah,
I
feel
like
I
missed
a
little
bit
of
that
experience,
I
guess
because,
like,
maybe
when
I
was
a
child
in
Croatia,
I
just
was
like
not
at
all
asexual
being
yet,
because
I
didn't
know
right,
I
didn't
think
about
it.
And
then
by
the
time
I
was
in
middle
school,
like
all
of
my
friends
group
was
queer
and
at
home
like
it
was
like,
you
know,
not
a
thing
at
all.
Middle
school
was
here
in
the
States,
yes,
so
like
it
wasn't.
Like
any
of
the
people
around
me
were
not
queer,
if
that
makes
sense.
Micah RiotHost14:53
But
like
your
middle
school
friends
were
queer,
I'm
like
that's
blowing
my
mind,
like
nobody
in
middle
school
was
out
as
anything
except
straight,
like
people
were
just
straight.
Yeah,
Did
you
go
to?
BellaGuest15:02
big
school?
No,
this
is
kind
of
a
loaded
question.
I
went
to,
let
me
think,
five
elementary
schools
and
three
middle
schools.
Oh
shit.
But
I
mean,
I
guess
maybe,
like
the
middle
school
I
went
to,
I
don't
know
when
is
puberty,
seventh
grade,
yes,
seventh
grade
like
12,
11,
12.
Micah RiotHost15:26
Yeah.
BellaGuest15:27
That's
when
all
of
my
friends
were
like
you
know,
queer.
Micah RiotHost15:33
And
so.
But
how
did
you
collect
them?
Or
did
you
just
like
fall
into
the
group?
I
just
fell
into
the
group.
BellaGuest15:38
Okay.
Micah RiotHost15:39
So,
like
you
know,
having
switched
schools
a
whole
bunch
like
I
just
fell
into
like
a
little
misfit
group
which
was
just
the
queers,
you
know,
yeah,
but
then
also,
like
you,
you
were
like
kind
of
an
immigrant
like
sort
of,
and
you
black,
like
where
did
they
was?
Were
they
just
queer
and
white?
Like
was
there
more
diversity
in
the
group?
I
feel
like
when
you're
an
immigrant
it's
like
such
a
different
layer.
But
then
when
you
also
add
race
on
top
right,
it's
like
another
layer,
yeah,
there
weren't
any
black
people
except
me
for
sure.
BellaGuest16:13
But
many
of
the
people
that
I
was
friends
with
then
that
were
either
like
queer,
gay
or
bi
are
adults
now
and
there
are
a
lot
of
them
are
trans.
So
I
think
they
roll
on
different
identity
journeys,
although,
like
I've
been
pretty
obviously
black
the
whole
time,
Right.
Micah RiotHost16:30
Yeah,
are
you
still?
BellaGuest16:33
friends
with
them.
Yeah,
yeah,
one
of
them
I
actually
kind
of
followed
to
the
bay,
okay,
cool.
Micah RiotHost16:38
You're
still
friends
now.
BellaGuest16:40
Yeah,
they
moved
away
though,
okay.
Where
are
they
now?
Oregon?
Micah RiotHost16:45
Where
the
queers
go
Often.
Yes,
what
was
it?
What
was
like
moving
back
and
forth
to
and
from
Croatia,
like
I
kind
of
had
no
control
over
it
and
it
was
like
pretty
normal,
based
on
how
much
we
moved
in
as
a
kid.
BellaGuest17:07
Yeah,
I
don't
think
I
thought
about
it
too
much
until
I
was
an
adult.
Micah RiotHost17:10
But
when
you
got
there
at
like
18
or
19,
was
there
a
sense
with
it?
When
you
like
arrived
and
you
were
like,
did
I
feel
like
home
in
some
way,
that
the
states
wasn't?
BellaGuest17:28
I
think
I
probably
hoped
it
did,
but
it
did
not.
Micah RiotHost17:31
Okay,
yeah,
but
how?
BellaGuest17:33
come
you
stayed
so
long.
I
made
some
really
good
friends
and
I
didn't
really
have
like
a
strong
plan
for
my
next
steps
and
yeah.
Micah RiotHost17:43
What
made
you
want
to
leave?
BellaGuest17:45
I
mean
I
knew
I
would
eventually
leave.
I
kind
of
felt
like
I
was
just
going
to
stay
until
it
felt
like
the
right
time
to
go
to
school.
I
don't
know.
Things
started
to
feel
a
little
bit
stagnant
there,
like
it
didn't
feel
like
there
are
many
opportunities
for
me,
and
I
think
I
kind
of
felt
like
a
little
bit
antsy
to
do
something
with
myself,
do
you?
Micah RiotHost18:16
have
dual
citizenship?
Yes,
I
do,
can
you
like?
Do
you
feel
like
you
could
eventually
go
and
live
there
again,
or
no?
BellaGuest18:27
No,
there's
no
black
people
there,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost18:30
Could
you?
Is
it
part
of
your
pain,
union?
It
is.
It
was
not
then,
but
it
is
now.
Would
you
go
live
in
Europe
someday?
BellaGuest18:38
No,
there's
no
black
people
there,
there's
some.
I
mean
there's
some.
Yeah,
I
mean
like,
the
culture
here
is
important
to
me.
Micah RiotHost18:49
What
do
you
mean
by
that?
What
part
of
the
culture?
BellaGuest18:56
I,
I
don't
know.
I
want
to
stay
like
plugged
in
with
my
community
and
I
want
to.
I
don't
know
what's
your
community.
I
guess
like
the
local
black
community.
I
want
to
stay
plugged
in
with
yeah.
Micah RiotHost19:13
By
local
you
mean
here
in
Oakland,
here
in
Oakland.
Yeah,
this
is
home
now.
BellaGuest19:18
And
I
think,
like
I
finished
school
like
three
years
ago,
four
years
ago,
yeah,
four
years
ago.
So
I
don't
really
have,
like
you
know,
any
equity,
but
I
want
to
definitely
participate
in
some
mutual
aid
and,
yeah,
just
Be
an
active
part
of
my
community.
That
makes
sense.
Micah RiotHost19:47
Yeah,
so
what
happened
when
you
came
back?
BellaGuest19:57
I
came
back
and
I
was
before
that
living
in
the
Seattle
area,
so
I
went
back
there
and
I
was
like
man,
this
sucks,
I
see
where
I
left
and
I
immediately
moved
to
the
bay.
20:10
Why
did
it
suck?
What
part
of
it?
It's
just
it's
so
cold,
like
bitingly
cold
A
lot
of
the
time
there,
and
I
think
there
is
really
white
and
I
just
fell
out
of
place
a
lot
there
and
I
think
I
didn't
have
like
a
lot
of
my
friends
had
moved
several
to
the
bay
and
it
was
mostly
like
I
don't
know,
friend-ish
is
friend
of
me,
is
there.
Like
I
was
hanging
out
with
just
people
who
made
me
feel
bad
about
myself
and
I
was
like
I
gotta
get
out
of
here.
It
sucks,
okay,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost20:55
So
then
you
kind
of
like
followed
people
to
the
bay
that
you
knew
there.
BellaGuest20:59
Yeah,
and
my
brother
lived
in
the
bay
so
I
was
like
I
can
just
have
him
drive
up
with
a
truck
and
I
have
been
overseas
for
several
years
so
I
don't
really
have
anything
yeah.
Micah RiotHost21:12
So
then,
when
you
moved
here,
how
did
you
settle,
like,
how
was
it?
Was
it
a
warm
welcome?
BellaGuest21:19
Yeah,
I
stayed
with
my
brother
and
his
wife
and
In
SAC
no,
they
were
in
San
Francisco.
And
then,
you
know,
the
baby
was
going
to
get
ready
to
start
going
to
school,
so
they
moved
to
Walnut
Creek.
So
I
stayed
with
them
there
for
a
little
bit
and
then
I
eventually
got
my
own
place
in
Oakland.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Micah RiotHost21:40
Are
you
still
in
the
same
place?
BellaGuest21:42
No,
so
I
moved
around
Oakland
a
fair
amount
and
I
lived
in
Alameda
for
a
few
years,
just
kind
of
around
the
bay
a
bunch.
But
yeah,
I
was
in
Mountain
View
somewhere
recently.
Now
I'm
back
in
Oakland,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost21:58
And
you
went
to
school.
Yes,
in
STEM,
yeah.
BellaGuest22:02
I
started
at
Leaney
College,
the
community
college,
and
I
was
kind
of
just
thinking
of
taking
a
variety
of
classes
to
see
what
I
like
and
I
was
like,
well,
I
know
I'm
smart,
I
feel
like
you
know
I
want
to
do
something
ambitious,
so
I'll
just
like
start
on
like
a
pre-med
track.
And
yeah,
I
just
really
quickly
realized
I
didn't
like
biology
very
much
but
I
was
good
at
chemistry
and
math.
So
I
was
like
let's
just
see
where
this
goes.
Mm-hmm,
yeah,
and
where
did
it
go?
I
transferred
to
Berkeley
chemistry.
Yeah,
I
did
some
research
there.
I
really
liked
that,
got
a
couple
of
scholarships.
I
got
a
corporate
sponsorship
from
the
place
I
work
at
now,
which
is
kind
of
my
shoe
in
to
work
there.
How
does
that?
Micah RiotHost22:58
work
Like
yeah,
you
gave
your
money
to
go
to
school.
BellaGuest23:03
Yeah,
pretty
much.
You.
Yeah,
I
don't
really
know.
I
was
like
applying
to
a
bunch
of
scholarships
and
I
think
this
one
like
slipped
in.
I
didn't
realize
necessarily
all
that
came
with
it.
I
was
just
like,
yeah,
I
need
money
to
go
to
school.
I'm
going
to
just
fight
all
the
scholarships.
And
then
someone
from
the
company
called
me
and
was
like,
oh,
I'm
your
corporate
sponsor,
so
I'm
going
to
check
in
with
you
about,
like,
how
school's
going,
how
are
your
grades
are
doing?
What
do
you
want
to
do
with
your
future?
Here's
my
advice.
That's
cool.
And
I
was
like,
oh,
okay,
I
guess
I
have
you
know
chemistry,
dad.
Yeah,
yeah,
and
yeah,
eventually
I
finished.
And
then
I
called
him
up
and
was
like,
how
about
a
job?
Micah RiotHost23:45
Oh,
nice
yeah.
And
then
he
was
like,
let
me
see
what
I
can
do.
BellaGuest23:50
He
was
like,
I
guess
like
switching
out
of
the
department
he
still
works
there,
actually
and
he
just
like
passed
me
off
to
another
person
who
invited
me
to
the
company
and
to
for
like
a
tour,
and
I
was
like,
well,
for
him
it
seems
nice.
Micah RiotHost24:06
And
then
I
like
tell
me
more.
What
was
so
nice
about
it?
What
attracted
you?
BellaGuest24:13
I
don't
know
that
this
would
be
like
super
interesting
to
many
of
your
listeners,
but
the
details
are
what's
interesting.
24:20
Yeah.
So
I
was
like
doing
research
in
a
lab
at
Berkeley
which
was
like
a
public
school,
so
like
funding's
not
great
and
so
the
equipment
is
a
little
bit
janky
and
there's
a
lot
of
inefficiencies,
and
like,
yeah,
I
went
to
this
big
pharmaceutical
company
to
tour
and
they
showed
me
like
how
they
approach
research
and
like
what
tools
are
available
to
them
and
it's
they
have
a
lot
more
money.
So
it
was
just
like
you
know,
like
starry
eye,
that
I
don't
have
to
like
hunt
for
my
own
chemicals
or
glassware
and
that
you
know
people
deliver
things
to
you
and
clean
up
after
you
and
all
the
equipment's
brand
new
and
yeah,
you
don't
have
to
share
things
really.
Micah RiotHost25:06
You
have
like
your
own
setup
of
whatever
you
need.
BellaGuest25:08
Yeah
and
it
seemed
really
fancy
and
like
I
was
like
I
can
get
so
much
done
like
this,
yeah,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost25:16
So
then
how,
like
you
were
out
of
school
right
in
your
20s
and
you
kind
of
have
this
like
in
with
them,
did
you
negotiate
like
the
terms
of
your
agreement
with
them?
Like
what
was
that
like?
Did
they
just
hire
you
because
they
had
kind
of
knew
you
already?
BellaGuest25:33
No,
so
it's
a
little
bit
of
like
an
involved
interview
process
and
I
was
not
in
my
20s.
Micah RiotHost25:41
You
weren't.
You
were
in
your
30s.
Yes,
I'm.
BellaGuest25:44
I
lost
some
of
the
timeline
between
the
18
and
the
oh,
so
yeah,
I
mean,
when
I
was
in
school
I
didn't
like
go
to
school.
For
four
years
I
went
to
school
for
eight
years.
I
dropped
out
a
few
times.
Okay.
Yeah,
and
I
had
dropped
out
of
high
school
so
I
didn't
know
anything.
I
had
to
retake
a
lot
of
stuff.
It
took
a
long
time.
Micah RiotHost26:03
So
you
had,
because
you
had
gone
to
beauty
school
before
you
went
to
Croatia,
and
then
you
were
there
for
a
few
years
cutting
hair,
essentially,
and
then
you
came
back
and
you
kept
cutting
hair
and
going
to
school.
BellaGuest26:12
Yeah.
Micah RiotHost26:13
Okay,
right.
BellaGuest26:16
Yeah,
I
was
kind
of
cutting
hair
to
put
myself
through
school
and
then
when
I'd
like
run
out
of
money,
I'd
like
leave
school,
work
a
little
bit
more
full
time,
come
back,
yeah
Cool.
And
I,
since
I
dropped
out
of
high
school,
like
I
had
to
take
like
five
years
of
math
just
to
like
even
begin
upper
division
chemistry
classes.
Micah RiotHost26:39
Like
five
whole
years
of
math
classes.
BellaGuest26:41
Yes,
Every
semester
including
the
summer.
Micah RiotHost26:43
How
did
you
not
get
like
over
it?
How
are
you
not
like,
oh
my
God,
I'm
going
to
do
something
a
little
bit
easier.
Or
requires
less
school,
or
like
less
classes?
BellaGuest26:54
I
guess
I
just
like
took
a
math
class
and
I
was
like
man,
I
hate
this,
I
suck
at
this.
And
then
I
got
like
a
very
good
grade
and
then
I
that
happened
again
and
then
I
just
was
like
I
think
I
like
math,
okay.
And
then
I
was
like
I
don't
know
why,
like
what
was
Why'd?
I
thought
I
didn't,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost27:13
Why'd
you
drop
out
of
high
school?
A
lot
of
reasons
that
you
don't
want
to
speak
to
on
the
podcast.
Maybe
I
can
cut
anything
out
that
you
don't
want
out
there.
Yeah,
just
tough
childhood?
BellaGuest27:28
Okay,
yeah,
I
think
I
don't.
I
guess
I
don't
mind
sharing
this.
Like
it's
a
little
bit
hard
to
like
finish
high
school
when
you've
gone
to
five
elementary
schools
and
three
middle
schools.
It's
a
little
hard
to
have
any
like
continuity
with
your
education
or
even
take
it
seriously.
Mm-hmm
yeah.
Micah RiotHost27:48
Makes
sense.
Did
you
end
up
going
to
only
one
high
school
after
all
of
that
moving?
BellaGuest27:53
I
started
at
one
high
school
and
dropped
out
in
my
freshman
year.
Mm-hmm.
27:57
But
it's
like
I
feel
like
I
just
don't
feel
like
I
had
like
a
very
good
chance,
right,
because
of
how
much
moving
I'd
done,
because,
like
I
knew
I
was
like
a
smart
person,
then
I
just
like
couldn't,
I
just
didn't
have
the
capacity
to
like
focus
on
school.
There's
too
much
chaos,
mm-hmm,
like
in
your
home,
in
your
life,
yeah,
and
just
like
you
know,
each
place
I
moved,
you're
at
a
different
level
in
each
school,
so
I'd,
like
you
know,
be
in
one
class
at
one
school
and
then
I'd
move
to
a
different
area
where,
like,
the
expectation
is
that
you're,
you
know,
two
levels
ahead
or
behind,
right,
mm-hmm,
which
is
like
the
continuity
was
just
it
sucked
and
had
no
idea
what
was
going
on
most
of
the
time.
Micah RiotHost28:45
But
you
were
like
14,
what
freshman
is
like
14,
15
years
old?
What
did
you
do
once
you
dropped
out?
Sort
of
like
jump
back
and
forth
around
your
life.
BellaGuest28:55
That's
okay.
Micah RiotHost28:58
What
were
your
days
like
once
you
dropped
out
of
high
school?
BellaGuest29:01
I
worked
at
a
coffee
shop
and
at
a
juice
bar
and
at
a
gym.
Micah RiotHost29:06
Did
they
know
that
you
were
like
a
child?
BellaGuest29:08
Yes,
they
did,
and
I
was
working
there
legally.
I
just
dropped
out
and
they
knew
that
and
yeah.
Micah RiotHost29:18
Did
you
like
live
on
your
own
then?
BellaGuest29:20
No,
I
moved
out.
I
think
I
was
17
when
I
moved
out.
Yeah,
I
worked
at
like
three
different
jobs.
I
saved
for
a
car,
I
saved
a
bunch
of
money
to
move
out,
and
then
I
eventually
did
move
out
while
I
was
in
beauty
school
and
I
lived
with
a
friend
in
a
shitty
apartment
in
Seattle.
Okay,
yeah.
Micah RiotHost29:41
Okay,
so
back
to
your
30s.
BellaGuest29:43
you
got
this
job
after
like
a
lengthy
yeah,
you
have
to
like
do
a
seminar
for
the
department.
Micah RiotHost29:51
Like
you
have
to
teach
a
seminar
to
prove
that
you
know
shit
it's
not
really
like
teach.
BellaGuest29:56
Like
you
have
to
have
research
experience
in
order
to,
like
you
know,
work
in
the
research
field
at
your
college,
so
like
I
had
been
in
a
lab
doing
that
and
you
have
to
present
your
research.
It's
like,
you
know,
half
hour
or
so
seminar
and
then
you
have
a
full
day
of
kind
of
interviews.
That's
like
either
like
one
on
one
with
like
a
director,
like
two
on
one
with
other,
like
scientists,
yeah,
and
then
at
the
end
of
your
day
they
get
together.
You're
not
there
for
this
part,
but
now
I'm
on
the
other
side,
so
I
do
that
and
they,
you
know,
talk
about
the
interview,
how
it
went,
what
they
like
about
you,
what
they
didn't
like
about
you,
and
they
vote
whether
to
hire
you
or
not.
What
was
your
seminar
on?
Mine
was
on
the
research
I'd
done
at
Berkeley,
which
is
with
like
a
graduate
student
there,
and
it
was
some
organic
chemistry.
Yeah,
the
field
that
I
was
in
was
total
synthesis,
which
basically
means
that
you
are
making,
like
I
don't
know,
a
compound,
a
chemical,
from
scratch.
Yeah.
31:10
Like
it's
like
useful
in
medicine
or
yeah,
it
could
be
like,
I
guess,
in
the
academic
area.
It
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
have
any
useful
utility.
It's
kind
of
an
educational
thing,
right,
like
a
lot
of
colleges
will
do
like
a
total
synthesis
of
something,
just
because
it's
really
interesting
or
hard,
right
yeah.
Micah RiotHost31:39
And
they
were
impressed
with
your
synthesis,
yeah.
BellaGuest31:43
I
guess
yeah.
Micah RiotHost31:47
Is
like
people
who
are
trying
to
get
hired
all
of
their
different
research.
Is
it
all
pretty
much
similar
in
the
similar
fields
or
is
it
different?
BellaGuest31:57
We
definitely
like
favor
people
from
specific
backgrounds,
like
at
least
academically.
But
yeah,
there's
like
definitely
sort
of
a
formula
for
the
type
of
experience
that
you
need
to
have
had.
But
yeah,
some
of
them
are
really
different
to
me.
I
go
to
some
candidate
seminars
now
still,
and
I
don't
know
what's
going
on
at
all,
like
yeah.
Micah RiotHost32:25
So
then,
what
are
you
going,
vibes,
when
you're
voting?
BellaGuest32:29
No,
I,
if
I'm
part
of
their
like
interview,
like
panel,
basically
like
if
I'm
meeting
with
them,
then
I'll
ask
them
a
bunch
of
questions
Like
yeah,
during
that
session,
and
then,
yeah,
some
of
it
is
vibes,
like
I
think
for
me,
the
most
important
thing
when
I'm
interviewing
someone
is
like
try
to
get
a
feel
of
like
not
what
does
this
person
know,
but
like
would
I
like
working
next
to
this
person
every
day?
Yeah,
so
vibes
A
little
bit.
Yeah,
yeah,
it's
definitely
important
that,
like
can
they
work
in
a
lab
safely?
Micah RiotHost33:03
but
like
Seems
like
something
that
can
be
taught.
Maybe
or
no.
BellaGuest33:10
Well,
yeah,
you
have
to
have
a
lot
of
training
beforehand.
Micah RiotHost33:14
Yes,
man,
it's
kind
of
similar
with
tattooing.
Safety
is
important.
Yeah,
um,
for
just
say
many
times
that
you
like,
really
love
your
job.
What
are
your
favorite
things
about
your
job?
BellaGuest33:29
Um,
I
really
like
the
independence
that
I
have.
Like
sometimes
I
wish
that
we
could
like
pull
the
curtain
back
for
a
lot
of
the
public
on
like
what
does
like
drug
discovery
really
look
like,
especially
recently
with
the
pandemic
and
stuff.
Speaker 3Host33:45
There's
like
so
much
misinformation
going
around
and
stuff
like
that.
Micah RiotHost33:50
It's
wild.
Um,
what
like
say
more,
what
kind
of
misinformation
that
you
see?
That
would
easily
be.
BellaGuest33:56
I
feel
like
I've
encountered
a
lot
more
like
anti-vaxxers
and
stuff
like
that
than
I
um
ever
thought
I
would,
and
um
you
mean
like
just
out
there
in
the
public.
Micah RiotHost34:10
Yeah,
like
since
the
pandemic
started,
right,
okay.
BellaGuest34:13
Not
like
within
your,
even
within
my
like
family
and
yeah,
I
think
just
a
lot
of
like
really
weird
um,
conspiracy
theories,
like
I
feel
like
there's
like
definitely
a
lot
of
this
sentiment
that
people
don't
trust
like
the
vaccines,
and
they
think
it's
because
you
know,
it's
like
a
secret
tool
that,
and
they
don't
know
what
the
agenda
is
for
the
vaccine.
Um,
but
like
we
live
under
advanced
capitalism,
right,
the
agenda
is
capitalism.
The
agenda
is
not
to
kill
and
subdue
the
people
we
need,
like
we
need
a
worker
surplus.
Micah RiotHost35:00
Yeah,
that's
what
I
was
saying.
Like
there's
no
way
they
want
to
like
kill
us
because
they
want
us
to
keep
working
and
making
money.
BellaGuest35:05
Yeah,
the
the
fewer
people
that
die,
the
better,
because
that
means
more
worker
surplus,
right,
and
that,
I
think,
is
one
part
of
it.
And
the
other
part
of
it
is
like
the
people
like
inventing
and
coming
up
with
drugs
and
drug
discovery,
like
our
regular
people,
like
we're
not
there,
isn't.
Like
no
one's
telling
me,
like
whispering
in
my
ear,
like
big
daddy
pharma
like
make
this
thing
because
it's
going
to
subdue
the
masses.
Like
I'm
just
trying
to
like
figure
out
what's
going
to
work,
what's
going
to
be
potent,
what's
going
to
be
non-toxic,
like
independently.
And
I
think,
yeah,
it's
a
little
bit
hard
to
talk
to
some
people,
especially
in
my
family,
who
just
are
convinced
that
evil
pharmas
has
a
secret
agenda.
The
agenda
is
just
to
make
money
off
of
a
few,
not
to.
Micah RiotHost36:05
Yeah,
Right,
that
seems
to
be
the
most
obvious
thing.
That
is
already
evil
enough,
right?
Like
taking
people's
freedom
to
frolic
in
the
sun
in
order
to
make
us
work
very
long
hours
for
not
enough
pay,
so
people
keep
hustling.
That
is
evil
enough.
We
don't
have
to
make
up
more
evil
schemes
than
that.
BellaGuest36:31
Yeah,
it's
not
that
complicated.
Micah RiotHost36:35
It's
really
not.
People
up
there
just
want
more
money
and
power.
Yeah.
BellaGuest36:43
I
think
and
there's
just
a
lot
of
misinformation
that
goes
around
that
I
think
at
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic
I
tried
to
be
a
source
of
information
for
my
friends
and
family,
but
at
this
point
I
feel
like
people
are
determined
to
not
know
what
is
healthy
for
themselves
and
to
reject
science
and
medicine.
I
don't
try
as
hard
I'm
going
evil
scientist,
I
guess
I
mean
it's
also.
You
want
to
make
sure?
Yep,
try
not
to
do
you
have
fun,
then
don't
get
it.
Micah RiotHost37:19
Right,
Enjoy
it,
Like
fine,
Don't
get
it.
I
think,
though,
there's
a
part
of
me
that
feels
I
get
that
there's
so
much
information
out
there
and
so
much
of
it
is
false.
When
you
Google
something
now,
you
can't
trust
the
first
page
of
Google.
There's
so
much
clickbait.
There's
so
many
articles
that
are
literally
there
for
the
ads
and
not
for.
When
I
see
something
that's
just
full
of
ads,
you
have
to
keep
scrolling
and
scrolling.
I
just
click
all
the
way
out.
I'm
like
I
don't
want
to
do
this.
Please
leave
me
alone
with
your
ads
or
really
anywhere.
Looking
for
information
online
has
become
fucking
impossible.
BellaGuest37:57
Yeah,
definitely.
It's
not
made
easier
for
the
public
too,
because
a
lot
of
I
don't
know
Peer
reviewed
studies
on,
say,
for
example,
the
vaccine
or
alternatives
to
it
or
treatments
are
behind
a
massive
paywall
too.
They're
also
behind
a
big
knowledge
requirement
years
of
study.
I
can't
send
a
nature
article
to
a
family
member
who
knows
nothing
about
science,
and
just
that
they'll
be
able
to
read
and
understand
data
and
tables
on,
I
guess.
As
an
example,
one
of
my
family
members
sent
me
an
article
that
said
coffee
can
kill
the
virus.
He
was
like
this
is
a
real
scientific
article
too.
38:53
I
was
like
all
right,
I'm
trying
not
to
negotiate
with
people
who
are
eating
crayons,
but
I'll
read
this
one.
39:02
And
did
you?
I
read
it,
I
read
through
it,
I
read
even
the
data.
I
read
it.
Basically
it
was
a
modeling
study,
which
means
that
someone
took
a
structure
on
their
computer,
a
three-dimensional
structure
of
the
virus,
and
they're
using
basically
a
computer
modeling
determined
that
coffee
can
interfere
with
viral
replication
in
some
way.
This
is
not
studied
in
any
actual
human.
This
was
just.
Someone
drew
it
essentially.
Yeah,
yeah,
this
was
on
a
computer
and,
like
modeling
is
a
really
valuable
tool
in
my
field.
39:57
But
it's
not
exactly
how
you
can
conclusively
say
this
is
our
new
drug,
right,
because
there's
so
much
more
to
it
than
that.
It's
like
if
I
make
a
drug
because
it
models
well,
then
I
have
to
make
sure
that
it
is
safe,
non-toxic,
that
it
is
potent
enough
in
a
small
enough
quantity.
Again,
in
this
case
they
did
end
up
testing
it,
I
think,
on
maybe
a
mouse
or
something
and
the
activity
that
they
were
saying
that
it
had,
that
it
was
so
potent
it'll
kill
the
virus,
what
amount
to,
maybe
drinking
six
gallons
or
something
in
a
day,
which
to
me
is
not
really,
I
feel
like
it
will
kill
anything
if
you
drink
six
gallons
of
coffee
Exactly.
Micah RiotHost40:46
Yeah,
it
will
kill
you.
BellaGuest40:48
If
you
have
to
think
about
toxicity,
you
have
to
think
about,
is
it?
Micah RiotHost40:51
even
the
acidity
in
your
stomach
would
be
so
horrible
for
digestion.
BellaGuest40:56
Yes,
yeah,
there's
too
many.
Wouldn't
give
you
a
hard
attack,
nobs,
you
have
to
turn
to
just
say
this
kills
virus.
Micah RiotHost41:09
Well,
I'm
also
curious
that.
Okay,
so
the
eating
of
the
virus
is
not
a
thing.
We
used
to
think
getting
groceries
was
an
issue
Early
in
the
pandemic.
We
didn't
know,
we
wiped
down
our
groceries
before
we
took
them
in
the
house,
and
then
we
found
out
that
stomach
juices
would
kill
the
virus
even
if
we
swallowed
it
on
something.
So
how
would
that
be
even
relevant
with
something
that
you
ingest
through
the
stomach
virus,
that
goes
into
your
lungs
through
your
nasal
passages,
versus
something
you
ingest
as
a
liquid?
How
would
that
even
make
any
logical
sense
at
all?
How
would
they
even
come
together
in
your
body?
BellaGuest41:53
That's
a
good
question,
and
I
don't
think
that
I
have
a
fairly
digestible
answer
for
it,
because
it's
the
same
way
that
antiviral
pills
work.
So
HIV
is
a
virus,
yet
we
take
pills
for
it.
So
when
you
take
a
medication
or
ingest
something,
it
will
go
into
your
stomach
first,
but
it'll
eventually
be
absorbed
into
your
liver,
go
into
your
bloodstream
and
get
to,
hopefully,
where
it
needs
to
go.
Like
same
reason,
there's
antidepressant
pills.
How
does
this
get
to
your
brain
when?
Micah RiotHost42:26
you
just
ate
it.
BellaGuest42:27
Yeah,
I
guess
that
makes
sense
to
me
through
the
blood,
but
okay
all
right,
but
it's
more
about
we'll
call
something
potent
like
a
drug
if
you
can
take,
under,
I
guess,
a
rule
of
thumb,
500
milligrams
of
it
and
it
will
be
effective.
But
if
you
have
to
take
significantly
more
than
that,
like
six
gallons,
I
would
call
that
dead.
I
would
say
that's
not
active.
Micah RiotHost43:03
Did
you
try
to
explain
that
to
your
family
member
who
sent
you
the
article?
BellaGuest43:08
I
did
and
I
did
some
very
rough
back
of
hand
even
calculation
for
him
and
he
said
thank
you
and
never
spoke
to
me
about
it
again
and
then
later
sent
me
another
weird
article.
Which
you
ignored,
I
ignored
it
after
that
I
was
like
this
is
kind
of
wasting
my
time,
but
don't
get
the
vaccine,
then
Fine
yeah.
So
your
choice.
Micah RiotHost43:36
When
you
like.
Do
you
have
any?
Do
you
have
any
friends
that
are
anti-vax,
or
just
family?
BellaGuest43:45
I
don't
know
that.
I
have
friends
that
are
like
openly
telling
me
they're
anti-vaxxers,
but
I
have
friends
who
are
definitely
like
suspicious
about
yeah,
the
vaccine,
suspicious
about
COVID,
in
general
feeling
unsure
definitely.
Micah RiotHost44:07
Have
you
had
those
conversations
with
them?
We
just
know
that
that's
where
they're
at
and
like
I
guess
I
tried
a
little
bit.
BellaGuest44:12
but
some
people
it's
kind
of
where
they're
at
and
I
don't
think
people
are
wrong
to
feel
like
suspicious
and
mistrustful
of
like
large
pharmaceutical
companies.
I
think,
just
like
it's
sort
of
misplaced,
it's
for
the
wrong
reasons,
you
know.
Micah RiotHost44:29
What
do
you
want
to
say
to
them?
Speak
to
the
world
through
this
microphone.
BellaGuest44:34
I
mean,
I
feel
like
any
of
these
massive
companies,
pharmaceutical
or
not,
like
the
evil
part
of
them
is
the
profit,
not
the
like
yeah,
not
the
science
Right.
Yeah.
44:54
Yeah,
I
think
it's
a
little
bit
hard
to
work
in
a
field
where
you
know
like
I'm
just
trying
to
like
learn
how
to
do
something
that
will
help
and
save
people,
and
then
like
see
so
much
messaging
from
people,
like
absolutely
rejecting
it,
just
be
like
this
is
evil,
don't
take
it
Right.
Like
imagine
being
the
person
who
invented
the
vaccine,
right,
which
has
prevented,
probably
like
millions
of
deaths,
right
yeah.
And
then
people
like
don't
take
it,
it's
bad,
it's
evil,
it's
like
man
should
I
yeah?
Micah RiotHost45:38
I
mean,
enough
of
us
talk
it
this
is
thankless
is
in
some
ways,
yeah,
yeah.
That's
a
little
bit
frustrating.
We
have
to
wrap
it
up
real
soon.
It's
2pm.
BellaGuest45:56
Yeah,
it's
okay.
Micah RiotHost45:57
And
the
thing
I'm
thinking
about
is
probably
bigger
conversation
but,
that.
46:03
how
do
you
reconcile
the
good
work
of
what
you're
doing
with
the
being
behind
the
scenes
of
this
capitalist
venture?
Right,
because
there's
like
pharma
big
pharma
has
the
sin
of
capitalism
behind
it,
but
you're
also
doing
this
very
good
work
that's
saving
lives.
How
do
people
like
you
not
asking
to
speak
for
everybody,
but
just
whatever
you
can
say
to
that?
I'm
really
curious
about
that,
because
I
know
other
people
who
have
been
in
pharma,
some
of
whom
have
made
a
lot
of
money
from
it
and
some
of
whom
haven't
necessarily.
And
that's
not
to
say
that
people
who
do
the
work
shouldn't
be
making
a
lot
of
money
like,
by
all
means
get
your
cake.
But
yeah,
how
do
you
reconcile
that
within
yourself
as,
like,
somebody
who
is
a
very
compassionate
person
in
general
and
that
cares
about
the
world?
BellaGuest46:56
Yeah,
it's
fair.
I
mean,
I
think
anywhere
I
go
would
have
the
sin
of
capitalism
behind
it.
So
part
of
it
is
that
that's
true,
I
think.
Besides,
that
chemistry
is
really,
really
fun
to
me,
and
just
the
tinkering,
the
research.
I
spend
a
lot
of
time
trying
to
figure
out
why
something
didn't
work
and
I
think
that's
really
fun.
The
workflow
it's
like
a
kind
of
job
that
I
can
for
years
now
go
and
just
get
really
sucked
into
and
not
think
about
anything
else
all
day.
Yeah,
I
just
really
I
like
the
puzzles
involved
in
it
and
I
think
it
is
ultimately
good
work.
It
does
save
people.
Drugs
do
save
people.
Yeah.
Micah RiotHost48:03
Would
you
say
you're
somebody
who
loves
humanity.
BellaGuest48:07
I
guess.
So
I
mean
I
could
go
work
for
Raytheon
or
something
which
I'm
not
doing.
They
make
weapons.
Micah RiotHost48:15
Okay,
yeah,
but
you
also
need
chemistry
for
that,
I
guess
yes.
BellaGuest48:21
Yeah,
and
I
have
no
desire
or
plans
to
do
that.
That
seems
like
pretty
obviously
more
evil.
Micah RiotHost48:28
Yeah,
totally,
yeah,
sure,
yeah,
making
weapons
pretty
evil.
And
at
this
point
we
ended
the
interview
because
we
had
to
go
see
Mean
Girls.
We
were
meeting
friends
to
see
Mean
Girls
at
the
movie
theater.
About
a
day
later,
bella
texted
me
to
tell
me
that
I
forgot
to
ask
her
what
is
a
small
thing
that's
been
making
her
happy
lately.
And
I
said
you're
right,
I
haven't
recorded
an
interview
in
about
a
month
and
I
forgot
to
ask
you
that
what
it
is.
And
she
said
well,
it's
my
work,
it's
blooming
and
it's
making
me
happy.
And
I
love
that
answer.
I
love
when
people
actually
offer
me
a
small
thing,
because
I
think
that
that's
a
place
our
happiness
lays
or
is,
lies.
That's
where
our
happiness
lives,
in
the
small
moments,
in
the
small
pleasures,
in
the
small
things
that
make
us
happy.
I
think
it's
easier
to
locate
the
happiness
in
the
small
moments.
49:37
And
I
think
it's
really
important
to
notice
it
and,
with
that,
have
a
good
week.