If you have ever wished to know more about me, Micah Riot, your wishes have come true. My best friend of fifteen years, Andi Smiles, takes over the podcast, hosts this episode and interviews me
for a change.
And honestly y'all, it was one of my very favorite nights in recent memory. It's intense and beautiful to hear your best friend tell you how they see you, especially when you believe
them.
I got a chance to talk about how I perceive tattooing (as magic), how I love my clients (from the start), how I've grown as a tattooist and a business owner, and we reminisce about our early
years as friends.
I very much almost full on cried about seven times in this one hour.
I love Andi and y'all will too after listening to this episode. I'd love it if you did.
And please subscribe, review, rate, if you love me back.
Episode Transcript
Andi Smiles:
Hello, my lovelies, and welcome to another episode of Ink Medicine with your host, Andi Smiles. Today we have a really special guest, someone that I know that you have all been waiting to hear from on this podcast, the one and only Micah Riot.
Micah Riot:
I just was
Andi Smiles:
I was like I can't look, I can't look. If I look at them, I'm going to just start laughing. That was an amazing intro, yeah well, I feel like I was trying to emulate your very, very calm energy. I try. So do you want to tell your listeners what's happening?
Micah Riot:
Yeah, so the podcast is now a year and a couple weeks old. The first full episode I released was the episode that I recorded with my best friend, andy Smiles, who is the host of today's episode. We recorded that episode a year ago. Was it 2016? Maybe 2016?.
Andi Smiles:
I believe so, because the photo you used of me to go up was that, like me, dressed up like a sexy pony, naked. That was so long ago, and I was like wow, this is a move to use this as your podcast photo for the episode. I don't know if you have any half naked sexy pony photos for this new iteration.
Micah Riot:
Well, that photo was used on the old podcast. That is no longer and I don't do the same format, so there was no. That picture does not in my new, but I feel like we might have to Put it in the show notes. Yeah, okay, so we're switching seats today. And last year on this time, andy said why don't we interview you for the podcast? And I said how about when the podcast is a year old? And now it's a year old, and so here we are.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, so why don't you tell everybody how we met? Because I think it's a good story, as it relates to what this podcast is all about.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, so we met. I was my first fall tattooing as a full tattoo artist. I believe I was just out of my apprenticeship, If not still quite still in it, I don't. Was it 2008 or 2009?
Andi Smiles:
I think it was 2009.
Micah Riot:
Okay.
Andi Smiles:
And I think you were just ending your apprenticeship.
Micah Riot:
Yes, I was like I believe it was right after. My apprenticeship lasted about nine months and then the owner of the shop said you're good, I need people and staff to tattoo the summer walk-ins. And so she basically was like you're done. But that was still felt like an apprentice at that time because it was not even a year since I started, and so that fall I had donated a certificate to an AIDS event, like some sort of auction.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, it was a silent auction. So it was a group I was involved with called Party With a Purpose, and we did this fundraising event for a few years to raise money for this home in Ethiopia that works specifically with children who were orphaned because of AIDS and also children who were orphaned because of AIDS, who had AIDS and other AIDS related or HIV related AIDS and HIV related disabilities.
Micah Riot:
I didn't know anything specific about it, or I think I was just approached by somebody who was part of your circle and they said would you donate? And I said, yeah, I'll donate. And so I donated the certificate and you won the certificate yes, because you were there at that event. And then you came to me and got the beginning at that time of what ended up being like a, I would say, like almost a half-sleeved type of piece, like a big, big, solid color piece, which was really fun for me to do and definitely a challenge because I was so new. But I was like this is so cool, it's so fun to do something like this, and I was dating somebody who shares a birthday with you or shared a birthday with you.
Andi Smiles:
That's right. That's right, I was your Scorpio intel.
Micah Riot:
But specifically like November 13th.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, we're a special breed. We're a special breed of Scorpio.
Micah Riot:
Yes, you are, and I remember I was. You knew all this stuff about astrology and I'd be like tell me why, like why did they do this?
Andi Smiles:
And you'd be like yeah, let me tell you like I can totally tell you that that's right, I totally forgot about that part that I was just like feeding you all the Scorpio intel.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, but it was so weird that I was like in love with this person who had your birthday.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, but then now I find it less strange because you gravitate towards Scorpios and Scorpios gravitate towards Aries. Yeah, now I'm married to someone who's an Aries. Yeah, and I'm not sure you know our friendship began, so it's it's. There's a dynamic there, for sure.
Micah Riot:
Yes, and still having the same date is strange, even though, like yeah, since then there have been other people in my life around that, like my step, my stepchild was the 15th and Stella was another kid that I really like cared for you know, hers was, I think, the 12th. So like I have those like teen Scorpio, everything about it is there for me. But yeah, I was like this is really strange and cool. And then you would tell me stuff. And also you were like I'm gay, but like I'm new to it, I don't know what to do. How would I wear, where do I go, how do I talk to people? And so I was like let me, let me like help you out.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, we traded intel for sure. Yeah, it's like I will feed you all the Scorpio facts. You have to feed me someone who's just coming out as queer and like doesn't understand how to be in queer spaces and feels uncomfortable with my gender and my history of dating like cis heterosexual men Like you were such a great person and you like did not really need my help.
Micah Riot:
I mean, I know you felt like you did, but you just like took to it right away and you had your dates and you had your like things.
Andi Smiles:
I'm glad I took to being gay right away. I really picked up. I really picked up the gay skills. I picked up the gay skills immediately, quickly, quick learner.
Micah Riot:
Quick learner the natural you are natural.
Andi Smiles:
Natural queer. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that like I remember about that time. So like I naively and I think this probably happens to you a lot went into that first session with you with a big idea and like a little gift certificate and you were very quickly like I want to do this, but it's going to be four or five sessions and so it's like okay, and so we had these sessions and we were tattooing like pretty regularly. I don't feel like there was like that much time that elapsed between our sessions, but we just sort of naturally fit with each other in terms of like our conversation and you know just our dynamic. But my favorite thing that I remember about you know that whole experience of really becoming friends with you was at our last session. The person that you shared the room with. So you know, it's like the end we did the tattoo is the last of it and we're kind of like talking and the person that shared the room with you was like Okay, but you two like have to be friends. I was and yeah, and it was and she was just like you two need to be friends. I've sat here now and listen to you talk to each other For however much many hours and you two need to actually be like friends outside of this like service relationship, which I think is where we're heading anyway. But it was so validating To have like someone from the outside looking in To see that we had that connection.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, totally I remember that, yeah, but yeah, I mean we had that point, had probably spent time outside the shop, I think. Maybe by that point you think we had.
Andi Smiles:
I think you probably like taking me to a queer party or two and helped me Process through some of my fem dressing up nests that was going on at the time, yeah yeah. But like to really have someone be like you, know you too, like this is like a friendship and for me, like I was actually thinking about this the other day, knowing that we were doing this, like At that point in my life I guess we were what like 25. That be about the age. I think at that point in my life I didn't know that you could still make deep friendships. I think I was, you know, now almost 40, I know a little bit different, but I think at that point in my life I thought that the deep friendships in your life really had to stem from childhood or like some kind of like shared experience, like college.
Micah Riot:
Interesting. I didn't know that you thought that.
Andi Smiles:
Well, I didn't think I didn't really realize it until I was really deeply reflecting about like how we met a couple days ago and that came up for me. I was like right, because I had a little bit of shock over how quickly we became close and how close connected we became very quickly and that that depth of a friendship could happen without what I had thought were kind of like the makings of a good friend.
Micah Riot:
Like the longevity.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, because I think when you're younger you think friendship comes out of time. Do you think that?
Micah Riot:
it's just different in the queer community. Like is that with queers? Because you share this thing that so few people in the world share that you? it just is different like you just meet people and if it's such a big thing to have in common that, given that you have other, a few other things in common as well, then it will just be like yeah, like we're like we're gonna bond fast, and I was like your first queer I mean silence is your first queer friend. But, like you know, I make a sense of like modern, yeah, adults like yeah.
Andi Smiles:
I think it is partially that, but I don't think it's all of that, because as I've gotten older I have made other deep good friends who are not queer. I think that that definitely becomes like a conduit or like a connection pathway, but I think that it really just is about like there are some people that you connect with on such a deep level that the time that maybe has built other friendships is almost like already there because of the depth of your connection.
Micah Riot:
But instead of doing this is doing this. Yeah, but no one can see what you're saying.
Andi Smiles:
So you're literally just like these.
Micah Riot:
These poor listeners are like oh yeah holding my arms out about two feet from each other and instead of showing the length way, I'm showing the depth way. But it's the same amount of space, yeah. So instead of having the length, you have depth.
Andi Smiles:
So the depth is what creates the friendship versus the length? Yeah, and then in our case, we've now been friends for a very long time.
Micah Riot:
Yes, now the length is there to the length is there to.
Andi Smiles:
So it's just become this like very, very special relationship and we're neighbors.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, yeah, which was a conscious choice, like it wasn't an accident. Yeah, that's interesting, though, what you're saying about how you thought about friendships at that age, because I think a lot of people still think that and do think that and think that longevity is also like the most important piece in relationship. And I, as an immigrant and as somebody who has moved, like moving here 12 a lot of people grew up around or with, like through school back then are also in other countries now right, like they're not all in Russia, they're in Israel and Europe and States and Canada. And then, having moved from LA and I know you have some of this to where you've moved from Hawaii to the mainland and stuff, but having that like I went to college in Ohio, where people are mostly from the East Coast, and then like moving here to a city that I moved to because of other queer people, not because of, like, any really connections that I had here, it's never been about longevity. for me, it's just been about like the spark you know, like the stuff that we find in common, or just that like energetic connection.
Andi Smiles:
So I never really thought about it that way before. Yeah, and I think. But I think that's something that's like very unique and special about you is that you are somebody who has like the willingness and the openness and the curiosity to connect with people immediately. You're quite a risk taker in that way, because I think a lot of people are really scared and I will just myself included are scared to open themselves up to people immediately and not saying that you, like, are so open that you're like wandering off to join culture.
Micah Riot:
But you in some point in my life I probably would have. Yeah, yeah.
Andi Smiles:
But you've always had such an open, you know way about you and we've again been friends for a long time. So I've seen you in like a lot of like faces of your life and in different types of like social situations. And you know we all grow and change but that core essence that you have, where openness, curiosity and like bravery In getting to know somebody and being open to connection Quickly is something that you carry with you and that's that's not common, it's very unique.
Micah Riot:
You can also be starting to make me cry in the podcast. I'm not doing that.
Andi Smiles:
New goal for the next 30 minutes is to make Micah cry.
Micah Riot:
It's easier than you think. I think, though, that that is interesting enough. Thought about this through the years is watching other people do it in the shop People we just mentioned, other people you know connects very fast with their clients, create a very intimate environment very fast and sometimes not have boundaries and not respect those boundaries, and that was what I was like very much modeled as a young tattooer and then had to undo in myself as I grew up as a tattooer and as a professional, and so something I'm watching for and say, you know, trying to like help her see what is the health like, how far to go in connection, when to like feel that boundary, when to stop, when to pull back, and I feel like that's the thing that comes with years.
Andi Smiles:
so yeah, what are your flags for that? Because I mean, I'm somebody I really admire this quality about you and it's something I would like to be able to do more. But then I don't more of a guarded person because I am Worried about just like I just you know vulnerability and all of that stuff. So how do you know when it's time to put up a boundary?
Micah Riot:
I'm such a feeler, an intuitive person, that it's just something I feel and I think I just know, you know, I know how it feels to overstop people's boundaries and to have my number steps, and I know how it feels when I let go on and let the person do it over and over and over again, how I just get to a place where all I can do is reject them and I hate like I hate the way that feels. So, yeah, I'm like more careful now, I guess at the start, just like observing more, noting flags more, and Not just not jumping all the way and but being like a wait in, like fairly fast, but not like jumping.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, I think that is part of like. I've noticed that change with you too. But it's interesting because, yeah, you will wait in, but You'll still wait in faster than most people would.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, and also if I really like somebody, I'm just like I love you.
Andi Smiles:
You are, which is actually another thing that I've been thinking about with you again thinking about this podcast because, like, we're joking about me interviewing you, but one of the things that I I wanted from this interview was for people to really like, know and see you the way I do, because I think the people listening some of them are in your closer circle and probably have more of the similar experience I have with you. Some of them may not be their clients or people have never met you, but one of the things about you that I also admire so much is how you love people and the generosity of your love. Trying to cry, yeah, you go, but I'm curious, what do you think about that? Because I've told you this before, and I think other people have told you as well, that you are somebody who loves deeply and generously.
Micah Riot:
You know. So I've mentioned this teacher now a couple of times, james Olivia, that I'm taking this course with. It's not a course I don't know what the fuck it is. The something they say is they say about themselves. I've realized that in order to teach somebody, I have to decide to love them. And so they, basically they say that I take on students having already decided that I love them. And when we chatted about this I actually don't remember our second part, if we had said this on air, we definitely said it to each other, but we had chatted for longer than we recorded and I said you know, that's how I feel. Like I feel like I don't work on anybody that I don't already love, and so it's easy to just love them in the way that they can take it. You know like I have clients that I'd work on them, feel whatever I usually feel when I work on somebody. You know like I feel care for them, I feel like I want to do whatever it takes to help them heal, help them become more whole, but I don't feel like they have a connection with me. So I'm totally like I'll let you go, like you know, I'll probably never see you again, that's fine. And then they come back, right, and I'm like but we didn't even have a conversation, like I knew what I felt, but like you were just in your own little world, like you didn't even talk to me, right?
Andi Smiles:
So you don't think they felt it on an unconscious level, though that care.
Micah Riot:
Maybe, maybe, but not everybody's sensitive to this stuff right. Some people block it out too subconsciously, unconsciously. And then they come back to me and I'm like oh, we do have a connection, like you felt it, because they'd be like oh yeah, no, I had such an amazing time here, I felt so held, I felt so cared for, you know. And they're like yeah, of course I'm back, I want more, you know another piece or whatever. So I know that like things are happening whether or not I'm like saying it out loud, whether we're having a conversation, whether we're exchanging information, like it's still happening. It's cool. It's cool. It's like spiritual you know it's like that. Describable and just like.
Andi Smiles:
Well, it is something that you really carry with you, I guess carry is and put out into the world. Because I think even this point where you're thinking, oh, these people are in their own world and they're not really, you know, like we're not having a deep conversation while I tattoo them and hitting some next level of our relationship, they're still feeling something from you and, whether or not they're super sensitive, they felt something and I think it's like the quality of your love and the quality of the way that you genuinely like, really care about people's well-being.
Micah Riot:
I do, I really do, yeah, and I feel like, if they are in my circle, like they came to me to get tattooed by me, they're like, like, I feel like I have these wings that are really big and they're spread out over everyone I've ever tattooed. That's like thousands of people chat about this. So, james, I live here too. I was like it's so hard for me that, like I'm not in touch with everybody I've ever tattooed. You know, it's like thousands of people clearly cannot be in touch with all those people. But you are in a way, In a way Right, because I'm in their skin.
Andi Smiles:
You're in their skin and they may not consciously think of you. But you know, even when I look at my tattoos that are not done by you, which are now few and far between you know, there are moments where I really remember the experience.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, and so like they might think of me or they might not, but you know, it was like I want to like literally be texting with them every once in a while, being like how are you? And like how's your kid? and like whatever happened with that job you hated like whatever you know like these things, and I was like clearly that's not realistic. And James was like that's how I feel, like yeah, like everybody, I think about people. I've taught years ago like all the time. So it's cool to encounter another person that holds space and feels similarly about their people as I do.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah.
Micah Riot:
In that way of like because, like. Because I was, like you know, when I watched that cold documentary that we were talking about Twin Flame.
Andi Smiles:
The Twin Flame documentary.
Micah Riot:
I was like I feel a little bit like a cult leader.
Andi Smiles:
So you're not joining the cult, you're going to go lead the cult? Oh yeah, really OK, give me your pitch for your cult.
Micah Riot:
The cult of tattoo love.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, but like what's the pitch, like what is your preaching, that's all.
Micah Riot:
No, that's all I got.
Andi Smiles:
If you are going to, lead a cult, you have to have a clear message.
Micah Riot:
I think, though, it's sort of like, like we're all, like I don't know, it sounds so cheesy Like we're all connected and once we're connected we're really connected, Like we are all connected. But then we can, like we literally connect through energy exchange, through doing art. You know being together Like so when I did ayahuasca, right, one of the things that the goddess told me is that every time you create something new that wasn't there before, you're God, You're being God, You're practicing God. Skills that could be like a drawing in a nap Can you do in a bar. It doesn't matter what it is. You create something new, A conversation can be that right, Like you having a conversation. That's new, it never existed before. So when we're in that space of, if I'm working on somebody, it's their energy combined with my energy, things they might have said or told me or things that they didn't say to me, but it's we create together. So we're God together. And when you're not divine union like you're connected for life. Right, and so that's the cult. You will now have many.
Andi Smiles:
DMs to join your cult. You almost have me joined and I'm like the most skeptical person, and but you're not wearing the right outfit.
Micah Riot:
This is my outfit. We all wear bralettes.
Andi Smiles:
You're like? Is it the cult of tattoos or the cults of no?
Micah Riot:
bras, bralettes and sweatpants.
Andi Smiles:
Bralettes and sweatpants. I mean, that's really what will compel me to join. Your cult is not only the beautiful message of divine creation and co-creation, but the fact that I don't have to wear an underwire.
Micah Riot:
Exactly. But see, this is what I'm talking about as far as like, like how I feel about it. So, like I used to feel like, ok, I was having these experiences, doing this work with people, but I wasn't as myself, like I wasn't enough, like I was like young, I was not, I didn't feel powerful, I felt like I didn't have my shit together in whatever ways. I felt like I was bad at like like relationship, love or like finding the right people to date, and I was just like feeling so heartbroken about basically everybody I ever dated. And then, like, at this age, at this age in my life, I mean I know that this is the natural progression, right, you like get towards your 40s, your middle age, you feel more secure in like, whatever way you are. Like you care less about how your body looks, you care less about what people think of you. You're just like I'm doing what makes me happy, what makes me feel good, and then coming into a balance with, like, my relationship to it just feels so things feel like a lot more, I can hold, more, I can be more of a cult leader, instead of just like a kid who is like, oh, I'll tattoo you. And like, oh, we have a school connection. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to, like, hold my own energy, you know.
Andi Smiles:
But I think this is like really interesting because, like, what I'm here used to talking about is the I would say like spiritual and emotional evolution of what this work means to you as the person doing the tattooing. And so where did you start then? Like when you first started tattooing, you kind of touched on it a little bit, but like just to be more like pointed about the question, when were you? Feel? How did you feel about the act of tattooing?
Micah Riot:
It was magic. It's always been magic for me. I I Always thought it was just so cool to draw on the body. Just the idea of drawing on the body with pens and pencil, like with markers, you know, like I did that as a kid. And and then I was like the human body is so beautiful and like to be able to Draw on it is so cool and then to leave a permanent mark is so powerful, right. So I was like it's such a powerful place to be and also so magical, like it always felt like I'll keep me in magic to me. And when I started tattooing because it was sorted by chance, you know, like I met a dexa at a party and she wanted to, my god, she wanted to date me and so we dated and I was scared of her but she owned black and blue and I was like this is seems like a cool entry, like a cool way, you know, versus sending me an entry to this world. And also she and I weren't gonna do that together. It was like if I was gonna tattoo wasn't gonna be because she taught me to, but it was like a step towards it. And Then I fell in love with her and then I did whatever she wanted me to do. So she wanted me to like order supplies, to manage the shop, make sure the phone was answered and the people in the front were talked to, and so I did that stuff for her. And then someone else in the shop said, hey, I like you. Do you want to do, you want to be tattoo artist? I'll teach you. And I was like, fuck, yeah, I do. And then every time I tattooed it was just so exciting, it was the most exciting thing I've ever done in my life. You know, I was just so into it. I was at the shop seven days a week, all day, like if I could tattoo, that's all that made me happy. And Then when she and I broke up, she wanted me to leave but I was like please don't make me leave, like I'm, this is all I have, and like I really want to tattoo and I Won't be here days, you're here and you know. And so she let me stay and I finished my apprenticeship and you know, I got my career, my sort of purpose, out of that relationship of sorts and I'm grateful for that. But it's just always felt like such magic to me and like all that was important to me, but I didn't feel like my Identity or like who I was didn't matter. I was like I get to do this cool thing and that's all I want to do. I don't want to go to graduate school for anything, I don't want to serve tables for Tips, I don't want to do anything else, I just want to do this. Everything else was just to like make money and get along and like find a way to pay rent, but this was like passion. So Tattooing was just magic and passion and everything. And then, you know, I went to different shop and then I was on my own, like yeah.
Andi Smiles:
so I feel like, Because those are like the early years, yeah, and we're talking about we just talked earlier about like the now years, but there were some middle years which I remember, you know, yeah, being your friend in those middle years, and my interpretation of those middle years was that tattooing was really kind of more like a business to you. It was like, especially when you went out on your own, it's like learning how this thing becomes Really like your career and your business. So you know you probably have different ways of thinking about those years. But like, what about the middle years? I Mean.
Micah Riot:
It's always felt. I can always get excited about tattooing every day. Still right, 15 years in. If I'm like I'm tired or I'm a grumpy, or or I'm grumpy or something's happening, I can still be like. But I get to tattoo today. Like what will that look like today, you know? So I can still get excited. And in between there was a lot of dynamics, like being in shops. There's always dynamics. There's other tattoo artists with their own egos, their own stuff, their own stories, and people can't keep that shit separate, like they just can't. So there were dynamics to Work around for the first six years of my tattooing career. So it was like dealing with that plus just trying to like build a clientele, built my portfolio, get better at what I was doing. And then going out of my own, I was like, okay, I can breathe a bit more, I'm not paying rent, like I'm not paying 50% rent to a shop, so maybe I can tattoo a little bit less, I don't have to share space, I can do whatever I want. But then it was like scary, like oh, my god, now it's just me, right.
Andi Smiles:
Like yeah, remember that, yeah.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, and like what if I don't have enough clients? What if not being part of a shop is like a big deal and like people don't want to Just come to me? So it was a lot of that and that's where I was like Okay, it's not just magic, it's also a business and I have to think about how I'm gonna make the sustainable and like Tattooing always felt like you know, because I worked for six, fifteen hour for so long that when I started to make tips, if I could make a thousand bucks a week, I was like, oh, my fucking god, I'm so rich, right, not not a week. It was like, yeah, right, so it's like four thousand a month. I felt so rich making four thousand a month Like I'd never made that before. I Was like eating by right food, you know.
Andi Smiles:
I remember you really to buy right. You were a big fan, which I love, that that is like our epitome at that time of our life. I also thought you were very fancy. I was like, oh my gosh, micah, I'm going to Micah's house and Micah has like an $80 bottle of whiskey and like Buy right, like orzo or whatever.
Micah Riot:
It was so funny you barely would let me buy you a drink at a bar at that time. Yeah, I had to convince you. I had to sit you down. Be like look, I'm making good money, let me just buy you a fucking drink. I do remember that conversation, yeah, anyway yes, but yeah, no, that was like my feeling so rich and, like you know, I had my lover in Germany and like I would go to Germany and I Was like I'm living the high life but like I wasn't saving, I wasn't investing, I wasn't. My rent was so cheap like I was paying under a thousand dollars for that studio for nine years. Can never raise the descent was amazing. But yeah, and then, being an active space, I was like okay, how can I Secure some sort of future for myself? Then I got Lulu. I had to get a car, I had to move to the East Bay. My rent went up like right expenses compiled because I made decisions about Lulu moving car. So, yeah, I became more about a business. Like how do I set up a business? How do I run a business? I'm not a business person. I'm bad at charging my rate, I'm bad at doing paperwork and taxes and like Quick books, like all that shit, like you are helping you know, it's like asking you for help with that. But it was just never, was like my forte. And then I was like if I did go to school I'd go to a business degree, like I wanted to do this well, but it still just was never that important to me, not as much as art and the people.
Andi Smiles:
So, okay, so these are the middle years, this is you becoming like, okay, it starts as magic and then magic needs to support you, and Earlier tonight we've talked a bit about, like, where your business is at right now and so, and we just talked about this evolution of tattooing, being spiritual, spiritual co-creation, the beauty of that. So, like, how did you then Go from into the balance, I guess, because to me it's like, okay, now you're in balance with, like the magic and the business, sort of you, are you? are more than you think you are that's probably true.
Micah Riot:
I do feel like, you know, I'm like, yeah, okay, I have a little bit of something to fall back on if something happens. Like that feels good, and you know just, people around me have more, so I'm like I can ask for help if I need it. Like back then Nobody had anything.
Andi Smiles:
You know you were the person that I was like. I will ask Micah if I need help totally.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, I guess. So it's in balance now it feels, yeah, in some ways it does, in some ways it doesn't. I think taking on apprentice is another way that I am like More grown, you know like, yeah, taking responsibility for somebody else, even knowing like I'm not responsible for her. She's an adult, but I Want to help her Get to a really good, stable place on her own two feet, because right now, yeah, like she's not fully reliant on herself and I hope that she will be by the time we're done Not that I hope we're ever done, like I hope she, you know, sticks around my life forever, but it's cool. It's cool to be like, actually, I do have something to offer. Somebody like not just a client who wants a tattoo, but like a young person who wants a life path. Ah, that's really cool. And like definitely another. You know like, yes, I'm learning as I do each tattoo, but it's a different kind of learning.
Andi Smiles:
So what's the learning now?
Micah Riot:
when you're teaching somebody something you know, you learn what you know more and you also realize, like you have a way of Passing information on that. You didn't know, like, how you would do that, but now you know and you just learn like All right things about yourself, like what is easy for you to explain and what isn't, what things are hard about Sharing space with somebody. Again, it hasn't been hard, but it could be, you know, as like there's more people in the shop which I have less tolerance for post pandemic, just like more people around me. So it's just it's cool. It's cool to be like this person. Trust me, I trust them. We have this like symbiotic relationship.
Andi Smiles:
So what do you think then? Because there's definitely I have seen like a lot of growth For you in the last yeah, like a year and a half taking on apprentice, starting the podcast. That was like a big step into cult leadership into cult leadership, assembling your minions. You know I definitely have. I felt like some of that shift and and I think anytime you're a business owner it's it is really hard to Acknowledge how far you've come. I mean, even just now. You know like I'm outside looking in, but also close enough to get a lot of the details of what's going on in your life and your business and You're like, oh, I guess I have, but Outside looking in, I'm like you definitely have you know, it's really hard for us to see that about ourselves, and self-employed people, I think, are naturally hard on themselves. But you have really taken your business to another level, both from, like, a business perspective, but also in the way that, like you Interact with your business as yourself.
Micah Riot:
Hmm.
Andi Smiles:
But I am curious what do you think that next Lair is looking for the future?
Micah Riot:
I mean honestly, I feel in some ways business-wise, that I am Perhaps at the edge of business capacity as what it is right now, and that is partially like bringing in a sailor and and having that. You know, like I don't know if I'm gonna stay in California forever. I don't know how long that we don't say that we don't talk about that. But you know, it's like I will definitely Be around to make sure she's on her feet. And then my dream is that we maybe expand together, right, like if we want To move into bigger space, maybe have another person work with us if she wants to take an apprentice at some point, like Grow, grow our little family. So that is a way to expand. And then the other pieces, that pandemic, like the podcast, for sure, is Because I'm like I can't work more than I can work and I can't raise my rates like astronomically, universally, forever. I mean inflation-wise, sure, but you know it's never gonna be like. I'll be like, oh, now I can charge a thousand dollars an hour and I'm like good, so I still have to work a bunch of hours, but maybe some energy can be spent towards making, for example, media like the podcast, and maybe it can at some point be something bigger than it is right now. If it never becomes that, that is fine, but I'm hoping that maybe a will and then it will give me more options. I Would love to expand my channels of revenue as Myself like right, not just as a Tattooer, but like as who I am, more of who I am.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, it's like more of the full identity, yeah, coming out because, yeah, I think a lot of people know you as a tattoo artist and a very talented I would say very successful tattoo artist, but they don't know the other artist parts of you.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, I mean, you know, you know I've had like Over the years and have, you know, ideas like the queer finishing school, right, like that would have been so cool to do. I Feel like I don't have the energy, of the resources to really make that happen, given full-time tattooing. I tried it in the pandemic because it was I had the time, but again, like it just didn't feel fully possible. So I have other ideas and I Like to like make my little ponies that's a new thing, you know. Like making art for the sake of art and off of the sake of skin is new. Like enjoying, just like drawing something cute and being like, why not, this could be a cool t-shirt, this could be a little sticker that I could sell. Who knows if that's something that can be a revenue of some sort. But I'll try. But yeah, just doing a few more things. And maybe what is the term multiplying your revenue sources? That's not the term diversifying. Diversifying because I love tattooing and my body has only so much capacity and my time and my energy. So I guess it's next step like New generation, perhaps expanding the shop later, using more of who I am To create more things to be gotten different, more different ways.
Andi Smiles:
Hmm, we're gonna have to do this Annually, because I really I want to ask you a year from now, because that looks like yeah, like, where are you at now? Because you know well, all of those things be fully manifested? Probably not because, like, growth and change takes time. Yeah, but some of those things will be manifested. You'll be a year in to having an apprentice.
Micah Riot:
And like she'll be tattooing full force.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, and a year later, what have you learned about yourself? Because everything that you're talking about and I think I like, as your friend, love your desire and like wanting to explore, showing up with more of who you are that isn't just the tattoo artist in, like I guess, like the work part of your life because you do show up that way outside of career profession. But I I know like things like the podcast have been making you really happy and you've been exploring a lot of different art, artistic mediums and just expanding more a bit of of that side of yourself in a more public way.
Micah Riot:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know part of it is. I definitely have some like weird, like sort of capitalist shame around it. You know where there's a, there's a transactual nature to a service you provide, no matter how spiritual. It feels right. Like Somebody wants a thing. They want to art on their body. I do the art, they pay me for it. Like that feels fine and fair. Whether or not I'm good at charging is another point, but like the, the idea of it feels fine and fair to me. But then To be like well, I want to make the podcast, I'd love to get paid for it that feels shameful. You know, I want to make cute little drawings. I want to sell them. I want to get paid for that. Like that feels shameful too. There's like a piece of Me that has a hard time with. Like we are. Why can't we do and be all that we are and and have our needs provided for? Like it's just not the way our world works. And also just like capitalizing, trying to capitalize on one's talent or one's like Joy, you know, or yeah, like monetizing things up just to make you happy, but also, at the same time, being like but I don't want to have a job that makes me not happy, right.
Andi Smiles:
Well, I think that's the hard thing right because you're saying this and I'm thinking, but also part of capitalism is that we produce for the sake of production and not for the sake of, like, happiness and joy and passion and creativity and Energizing and, you know, putting something beautiful out in the world. I think this is a really interesting thing about capitalism, because we often think that charging money for something is Capitalism, like we just kind of equate, I have you know we can't. it's easy to do that yeah where the you know, worst parts of capitalism are so much deeper than that right.
Micah Riot:
Right it's like exploiting a show and it's extraction.
Andi Smiles:
It's, you know, output for the sake of output. It's individualism, and nothing that you're talking about is any of those things.
Micah Riot:
Yes, but they, like I, an individual, deserve to get paid for these things that I do. That make me happy, while you another individual Work a job that you probably hate not you specifically like a consumer right of something that I provide, and so it's not. It's not essentially exploitative, but it can feel Like I got lucky and I get to do this cool thing that I love. That barely feels like work at all. Everybody else has to go to work and like do a job that they feel is work. It's not luck, though.
Andi Smiles:
That's not luck to me. That's you making decisions throughout your life. Yeah, that we're really rooted in what you value most and really rooted in the things that are important to you. Like we just talked about co-creation and the way that you love and having wings over, like those that all cook. All of that stuff goes back to your core value set. Again, coming back to this point of like being courageous and being brave, like you've lived your life in a very brave way, because what you've done is you have always, like, followed your values and followed what's Most important to you. That's going to make you feel happy, but also like content in your way of showing up in the world Versus Following external messages. It's not luck, though. That's not like a thing that's lucky. It's Intentional decisions that you have made. You've just been, I would say, maybe braver than some of some other people.
Micah Riot:
I guess the luck bees feels like. I met the owner of the best shop to have an appendix at At a bar and she wanted to fuck me. And that's the luck, you know.
Andi Smiles:
It's not, though, because all of us have had opportunities across our lives and we have made the choice whether to take them or not. You know, we all have to be accountable to the things that we have and haven't given up. So, again, I don't think it's luck. I think a lot of it is about intuition, and you know well, privilege is there as to, but privileges not luck. Privilege, that's a different conversation, right, but it also has to do with some of the choices that we make, and you have made choices. We've known each other for 15 years. I've seen you make a lot of choices. Some of them, I've been like I don't know, but I think the ones that really matter. You've made choices that I think a lot of people would have been really scared to make.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, I mean, we all have our own sets of things and thank you, I mean I love hearing you talk about how you see me. It's very cool and flattering. But, yeah, I feel very seen by you and of course, the longevity is also really special, even though that piece doesn't. It has never been the way that I base depth of love on, but in our case it adds also because it's hard to believe somebody when they tell you how amazing you are. It's hard to believe them in general, but I think it's easier when you know that they have seen you through decade and a half of time. And also, I've always just had this amazement at all that you are and all that you're able to accomplish and all that you are able to put your attention on at the same time. How you can hold job, hobbies, relationship, friendship all with equal vigor and equal attention and love. Most people can't do that and so, no, you do. Really see me, I can believe the things you say. You know about me.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, well, I hope that also, this experience is, like the people listening to this who again maybe have contact with you in ways that are not as close as we have contact, to get, to get more of the sense of that.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, thank you. It's really special to be on the other side of the microphone.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, I do have one more question for you. Okay, switching gears a little bit, because, listening to your podcast, you talk a lot with folks about their tattoos and, especially in light of, like everything we've talked about tonight, what is the experience for you now getting tattooed, especially after having created so much space for people? What is it like for you now?
Micah Riot:
There was a point when I was like I need to be more covered so I look like a tattoo artist, and so I was like I'm gonna get a chest piece, I'm gonna get a back piece. Sleeves are where, like never as much a part of it for me, because I've always been like I need to be really careful with my forearms and my hands so I can really enjoy things. Their heart is a cover up, there's less skin, et cetera. So I got my chest piece, I got my back piece, I had my chest piece redone.
Andi Smiles:
Yes, I know.
Micah Riot:
I know. So it was like the process of years of just like getting tattooed because I wanted more coverage and like I do love what I have and it's meaningful and all that. But there was the like, just the time, energy, money devoted to just like being more covered. And then the little bits that I got and sense just for fun enjoyment, like my ears and my hands and stuff. And now I feel like I'm another stage of it where, yeah, I'm ready for my forearms to see those things every day and like make decisions that I won't wanna change my mind on, at least for the time being, because, yeah, like you can't see me through the microphone, but I also had my entire half-sleeve on my left arm redone. I'm gonna like. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna just put some black over that, it's fine. Yeah, it doesn't need to be that thing, it's okay. Just be with some black, like whatever basic shapes.
Andi Smiles:
I actually love this. I don't wanna derail too much. But when you did that redo of your half-sleeve and of your chest piece, it was such a like mind like fuck moment for me, because we have so much association with tattoos being permanent and all the permanency that comes around and you like, especially your like half-sleeve. It's totally different. I mean, it's not what it used to be and it really like I just had never thought about the fact that there could be an impermanent nature to tattoos. And then when you changed a lot of the work on you because I think they kind of all started to happen around the same time- Was all done by the same person.
Micah Riot:
The last person who was working on me, hannah, hannah Wolfe, yeah, and I asked her to redo my chest. It was very specific. It was too bright and I didn't like the face of the. It's a bird. I liked the wings, but the face and there was just like pink and teal. It just was too much for me. And so I asked Hannah to redo it and I just trusted her, like I knew she was amazing artist and she there's a really beautiful, realistic work and she did such a beautiful job. And then I was like, yeah, so if you want to keep working on me, like could you just do some block work on my arm? And all of this was like I didn't like the face of the bird, but Liz had issues with my arm where she'd be like that is weird, it's creepy. Like she was creeped out by some parts of it. No, it wasn't like anything, you know, gory, but it was just. She just didn't like how it looked. So I was like, okay, fine, I'll cover it up. Like for you. Basically, it was like for her, cause she gets to see my body more than I do. Right, like our partners see our bodies more than we do in general. So I was like, yeah, you deserve to look at something you like seeing every day. And there's other parts of my body of work that she's like can we cover that up?
Andi Smiles:
And you're like not everything Right.
Micah Riot:
This is not your personal canvas, kind of how it feels and like I kind of like that, I like that she cares. And then I'm like really, who's gonna pay for all this? You know it's not gonna be you, but yeah, I'm just in this place where I'm done with the me feeling like I'm covered enough to be a legitimate tattoo artist Although I do want some like neck stuff, I mean, you know, and now I'm in this.
Andi Smiles:
I think we said we were gonna get neck tattoos for our 40th birthdays at one point. How did they say that? We said that when we were like 30. We were like, oh well, we'll get neck tattoos when we turn 40, because we're like that's so far away.
Micah Riot:
Well, are you ready?
Andi Smiles:
I mean, I could get a neck tattoo. Yeah, you think so. I think once your hands are done, it kind of becomes like a I think it's different.
Micah Riot:
Still, neck tattoos are more intense for people.
Andi Smiles:
I mean I'm not talking about all the pain stuff that I'm scared of.
Micah Riot:
No, I don't mean intense in that way.
Andi Smiles:
I think they actually look really hot.
Micah Riot:
I think they look hot too. I think they look really hot. There was this girl who identified as a neck tattoo sexual.
Andi Smiles:
I mean, I wanna be somebody with a neck tattoo that turns somebody into that.
Micah Riot:
There you go. Yeah, Well think about it?
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, think about it. Our 40th birthdays are coming up very soon, you have a year-ish, until yours.
Micah Riot:
I know you only have a few months. I do. It doesn't have to be on our birthday.
Andi Smiles:
We can start planning for it the year we turn 40. Okay, we're digressing Too much about our neck tattoos.
Micah Riot:
I have plans to work with the tattoo artist that I recently found out about for my left forearm and I will let her have a lot of freedom. But yeah, I'm just so. I was saying like I was busy for a bunch of years just getting covered, and then I was busy covering up some of the stuff that I had gotten, and now I'm ready for more fresh skin work and I'm choosing somebody based on style instead of being like oh, I want a thing and I know you, so will you do this thing for me that I think you'll be fine. For Now I'm like this person does decorative blackwork, which is like what I really like now, and I will let her have a lot of leeway. So that's kind of what I'm at. Like it's just yeah, like I know what I like now. I want that. I'd love to be more covered, since I'm ready for the next stage, I guess. Yeah.
Andi Smiles:
So of your tattoos now? Yeah, Cause people always ask me. I get asked this question a lot. You probably do too, Like what's your favorite tattoo.
Micah Riot:
I mean, it changes right, right well, that's the point, this problem.
Andi Smiles:
You're like that doesn't work, like that, like you don't have a favorite tattoo. I think you have a tattoo that in certain moments of your life, you feel really connected to Right, and it can either be like, sometimes, the newest one you got, sometimes it's one like I have a lot of times recently, like my older tattoos, they are bringing up new thoughts and feelings and reflections on the time of my life. I was in what they meant then, what that lesson means. Now you know things like that. So what tattoo are you feeling most connected to right now?
Micah Riot:
I mean, I have a couple of tattoos that I I would say my favorites, for different reasons, so I'll answer your question from my own angle. I think just my blanketly favorite is the stars here. You can't see it on the mic, of course. I will describe it. It's on my right hand. It's a bunch of like hand drawn looking stars that run from my kind of over my wrist and onto my hand, and it was done by a person that I had guessed at my shop not really guessed widely, but just for their own clients. They came through last year. They're just somebody I admired online for a while. They're a writer and a really cool human and they ended up doing this on me and I love it. It's hand poked and I just say I love the placement, I love the way it looks, so that's my favorite. As far as that goes, I see it a lot. I do love this half sleeve. I think it's just like badass. I love black work.
Andi Smiles:
The cover up half sleeve the cover up half sleeve.
Micah Riot:
it's all like pretty solid black work with kind of clouds and stars and the sun, but then, like, my sort of spiritual favorite is actually one that you can't see because it was done without ink. It was done by so the lover I had when I met you, who died of stomach cancer in 2016.
Andi Smiles:
Yeah, I know.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, they tattooed, I let them. So the first time I went to Germany to visit them, they wanted me to tattoo them. So I tattooed this wild roller coaster thing on their legs which I was so nervous about that. But we did it and we're playing with the machine and I was like, why didn't you tattoo me? And they were like okay, fine, but I will do it without ink, because I don't want to do this fucked up tattoo on you. And I was like no, no, please just do it with ink. I don't care. They're like no, I will do it with no ink. So they tattooed up my thigh and it said a stedimo, which in Greek they're Greek, they were Greek. It means my little star, and it's no over there.
Andi Smiles:
But it is. And you know, what's wild is that when you were over at my house getting ice, I was putting a little food away and I was looking at your fridge and I saw the photo of them holding the tattoo gun. And so I didn't know this was not a setup question.
Micah Riot:
Yeah, I am.
Andi Smiles:
Some best friend knowledge that I suddenly made into a thing. But it's just interesting because I was looking at the photos on your fridge and thinking about that person as well. So there you go.
Micah Riot:
If I could find a picture of how my leg looks with that tattoo, because what happens if you tattoo without ink? You end up with like a red line where it's like a scratch, but it lasts for a little while. It lasts for some days, maybe a week, maybe two. If I could find a picture of that, which I took a picture, I would tattoo myself with it. I don't know if I could find a picture, but it's funny. There's the picture of my fridge. Is them holding the machine tattooing my leg? That's exactly the moment. I should put that picture somewhere in the show notes.
Andi Smiles:
You should, yeah, especially because it came up on and off air we'll say yeah, should we end with the question that you ask everybody?
Micah Riot:
Yeah, sure.
Andi Smiles:
I don't know if I can get it word for word, it's okay.
Micah Riot:
Just over in your own way.
Andi Smiles:
What is something that is bringing you joy right now in your life?
Micah Riot:
So the way that I ask it is a small thing and people will usually be like it's my cat. I'm like the cat is not a small thing. What is a small thing.
Andi Smiles:
Well, I'm thinking about a small thing. But I'm greedy, I want a small thing and a big thing.
Micah Riot:
I mean, I love this time of the year, I love the earth, even though it kind of sucks for dog walking and other things. I love how cozy it is at night, you know, with Christmas lights, and I love walking or driving and seeing people's trees in their windows and their decor. I love Christmas lights, I love them. So that's, I don't know. That's a small thing, I guess it's making me happy lately, and a big thing is sailor, yeah, having that relationship and that point of growth for both of us and stretching, like stretching to accommodate us both and myself in that role, and stretching the shop to accommodate her.
Andi Smiles:
I love that. Yeah, that's beautiful yeah.