Sayler came into my life about a year and a half ago though I'd been hearing her name for much much longer than that.
This fall we are starting the journey of her tattoo apprenticeship and we are both as ready as can be. I've been waiting for her for a while. Well not her exactly... but someone just like her.
Curious, layered, brilliant, committed to the human experience and understanding of the fact that we don't just sling ink around here.
If you want to hear the story of how we met and connected, and how I ended up with my very first apprentice, and why her, have a listen.
You can connect with me, Micah Riot, as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/
Micah's website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
https://www.micahriot.com/ink-medicine-podcast/
Transcript:
Speaker 1:
Hey y'all, micah here. I'm really excited about this week's episode. I finally got my sweet, sweet apprentice, zaylor to come on the podcast and introduce herself essentially to all of you. I really wanted to start her apprenticeship with an episode of Ink Medicine Podcast and we timed it just about right. I'm recording this late on Thursday nights. It is the 12th of October 2023. It's been a week. It's been a week. It's been really difficult for me to concentrate on much of anything else but the current news, and there's nothing I can do here in the States and California. So the show must go on. The people must be entertained. Ink Medicine Podcast has to be made. So I present to you the best sweet, young human that I could have found to be my very first and probably, perhaps possibly only, apprentice Zaylor McBean socketz, weak light. Hello, my darlings, this is Micah Riot with another episode of Ink Medicine Podcast. Today I have a very special human, my very first apprentice, sailor McBean. Sailor, how did you just tumble into my life?
Speaker 2:
Well, it all started with my aunt named Tanya Mia. You guys were work neighbors, correct? And I spent Many years ago, many years ago, and I spent the majority of my childhood awing at the work that my auntie had on her body and just wondering who this human could be and when I would get to meet them. And the time came years later after like pillowing my way into adulthood and yearning for ink on my body, and I ended up finding you on Instagram and we had a session together and it was incredible and there was so much beauty and so much connection and somehow I got the honor to be able to become your apprentice and we are starting that journey now.
Speaker 1:
Why do you want to be a tattoo artist?
Speaker 2:
I think that expression is such a core piece of who I am and who every single human is, and Tell me more about that expression.
Speaker 1:
Ah just like the permanence or the fact that it's on the body.
Speaker 2:
More just like expression is everything you know, and being able to embody that through something that is permanent but also impermanent because nothing is permanent is really inspiring to me, and it's something that I've always been so curious about, and, after experiencing what tattooing can look like with you, it made me yearn for it more, you know, because it was something that was rather not like cliche. I suppose I grew up with a lot of ink in my family, but it was much different.
Speaker 1:
But tell me, tell me more about that. What was different?
Speaker 2:
It was more so a way of putting on a shield, maybe armor, I don't know how to put it. I think, instead of expressing yourself, it was kind of hiding in my family. You know like, oh, I'm tough. Here are these stickers to present that I am tough rather than-.
Speaker 1:
Like don't fuck with me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, don't fuck with me. Pretty much, Instead of embracing all the other possibilities of what it could be. And I think that the core reason that I was so drawn to tattooing is, A because of the exposure that I had in my childhood, but B wanting to kind of transform what that could look like.
Speaker 1:
And what is it for you Like it's it does it not feel like armor to you? Is it something else for you?
Speaker 2:
I think that it can be armor, but it can also be like Like. You have very insides on the outside yeah, like exposing the truth of who you are and being able to kind of put that on your physical self and on the outer body, instead of having it all so hidden. And I think that being able to be the conduit of that experience for other people is just such a dream of mine. Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1:
Have you always been drawing, making art? Absolutely yeah, it started I don't even know.
Speaker 2:
I mean, you're always drawing when you're a child, but it got when you're an only child.
Speaker 1:
When you're an only child.
Speaker 2:
Yes, when you're an only child, I know, I know, yeah, when you're an only child you have a lot of time to draw and do art and reflect. So, yeah, it's kind of always been a part of my life. And then I got really fixated on certain concepts throughout my youth and then that tumbled into just it being one of my main outward passions.
Speaker 1:
What kind of stuff do you like to draw?
Speaker 2:
I like to draw organic, sort of psychedelically altered variations of things, as well as abstraction and just really fluid, strange, creepy, beautiful concepts.
Speaker 1:
Do you want to primarily tattoo that or do you want to have your range of what you tattoo be different?
Speaker 2:
I don't know yet. I think that that's the beauty of starting this journey is I'll just sit it down at my desk and I'm like, oh wow, I really don't know what's ahead of me, because it's going to be such a collaboration with the people that I meet and I think that that's going to drastically change. What I want to tattoo eventually is bouncing off of people as well as putting my own flair on things, but I think that the majority of my desire will always lie in like the creepy and the beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I mean starting out, you know, like I remember how literally I was going to tattoo like a star, like just a little five-rayed black outline, black filled star, right, like something like that would be like a good first tattoo or early tattoo. And just being so excited to just create a permanent mark, like the magic of creating a permanent mark in someone else's skin, like the magic of their trust in you, that star was everything right. Like just trying to get those straight edge lines, trying to get that nice even fill, like just that in itself was so magical. Like I don't think that are as far as like what you think of as your style or you know, that kind of didn't really come in until much, much later. Wow, that's really that's really beautiful.
Speaker 2:
I think I will feel similarly once I start, you know, because it's all about the technique. You know, that's what this apprenticeship is about is really delving into the art of tattooing first, before it becomes the art of everything else. So I think that the excitement will also be very present in that little five line star. What are you hoping to learn?
Speaker 1:
Everything. I don't know how to express it.
Speaker 2:
I know, try like, because there's not right.
Speaker 1:
So I mean you've also been listening to a podcast where I've tried to explain to your average Joe what this is like, what it is we're doing here, right, Because people look at tattooing as like you're just drawing on the skin and it's just this like fun light thing, or it's very dark and heavy, but it's either way. It's like people don't think how, about how deep it goes or how much is involved, right, sure, so what besides? like you're going to learn, I mean you're learning how to create a tattoo and someone's skin is going to be a lot of muscle memory repetition, choosing appropriate projects. You know a lot of stuff like. I'll guide you through that, but a lot of it you will learn from just doing it. Yeah, but besides the actual tattooing, what are you hoping to learn? I see you now.
Speaker 2:
I think I'm hoping to learn, firstly, how to kind of find the fluidity of human form and add to it, as well as the human element of the work which we've talked about a lot, which will also come naturally Just learning how to hold space for people within that ritual of a session, as well as for myself. I'm excited to learn about myself through people. I'm excited to learn more about how deeply you can delve within the creative process and just more about expression in general and what that means to everyone in their own particular and unique ways.
Speaker 1:
Mm-hmm, why did you decide you wanted to have this experience versus a more average experience. Not that there's an average experience, but there's sort of a. People think of an apprenticeship, you think of like a big walk-in shop. You think of very busy, you think of many artists, you think of big names, awards, right, yeah, like that would be someone else's ideal apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I mean, I had the opportunity to go the other route, right?
Speaker 2:
I mean, I started at another place. I mean I started at another shop as a front desk worker and it felt so wrong in so many ways, and I think the contrast of knowing what was on the other side of our interactions and knowing how you work, your business and your shop was just so much more attractive to me and who I am. And I just think that, rather than being in a space where it's more I don't want to say corrupt, but corrupt, and about the money and about the instant gratification of just doing a tattoo and sending them on their way and then doing another one, I think that observing you and the space in which you work, this element of expression was just really beautiful to me and being in that environment felt right and it felt like I could actually connect with a part of myself that I'm really longing for.
Speaker 1:
What do you think about being a young woman in this industry? What does it look like to you from your point of view? Like for me, you know, I'm almost 40 years old, having been in it for 15 years and I was raised in a women's shop. There were men there at a certain point, but they were lovely and it was easy for me, like they weren't toxic, so I never really had to experience that environment. You know that's something that I would have probably had a really hard time with, but from your point of view, like you're a different generation you're a little younger than I was when I started what does it look like to you? What does the industry look like to you now?
Speaker 2:
It looks and feels safe now because of all the work that has been done by the people who've had to struggle. In my eyes, you know, I mean I had the option to go the harder, gnarlier route of being in a more patriarchal, gnarly shop or I could be in this environment. That is really about holding space and opening space for yourself. So I feel safe. I feel like this craft is evolving and I can be a part of it and of course, I'm going to struggle in my own ways and I'm sure I'll have to have interactions that aren't great. That's natural in the human experience. But it feels like work has been done and it feels and it feels like a really progressive realm to exist in now and I think that just inviting more women and more queer people and more just humans who have gone through hardship in general to this space will open it more. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
You're sort of like the representative of your generation in my life, you know in my partner's life or both, like someone really young who sees things a really different way. Do you? How do you feel about identity politics? Like it was something very important. When I started there was Black and Blue as a women's women in the queer shop because there were other spaces where even clients who were queer could really go and feel comfortable. It's a lot of big, intimidating dudes. So identity politics from my youth were really important because you wanted to find your people. That's what you felt safe with, right, but for you it seems like your generation is not as into like labels and when up with quotation marks around that.
Speaker 2:
Sure, yeah, I think I hear what you're saying. I think that it just feels dumb to have to explain yourself to someone who doesn't matter. So that's where I think that my generation is kind of coming from. It's like, well, this is what we are, you know, why would that even be something that anyone questions? There's something really empowering about finding your voice and making that super known, but maybe just knowing it and not having to say anything is beautiful too.
Speaker 1:
Do you think it's because there's less walls between people, like people less identify as in a specific way, because a lot more people are just more fluid?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think so, and relating it back to how I feel coming into the industry now, like feeling more safe and that I do have a place. You know, I think it's similar because of the building blocks that have been created by the people who have struggled and who have had to scream instead of just To be heard. Scream to be heard. You know, I think that that's why Everything is changing is because it had to and it was forced, you know. And the internet, and the internet, that's a big deal for sure. Everything's much more accessible and Known. You know, nothing feels super foreign anymore.
Speaker 1:
It just makes sense that there's differences and there's beauty in them so art-wise, also because of the internet and it being Everything's out there, right like when. I starting out a lot of things I was doing my Shopmates were not doing. You know I was doing black lace pieces. I'm gonna start doing watercolor or dot work, Like there were a few people who were doing those things. It's experimentation felt really exciting. Mm-hmm and so you know, like everything's out there, everything's been done. Does that feel, do you have feelings about that?
Speaker 2:
like Hmm, I mean, naturally I suppose that could feel intimidating. You know that every single thing has been done and every niche has been touched. But then I kind of look at your work and those particular artists work and I think that every artist has such a unique thumbprint that it doesn't even matter. You know it falls into categories, but then again every human has such a delicate way of Expressing who they are and I think that Naturally, like you're just going to attract the people who want, who crave that particular thumbprint, you know, and there really is an audience for everything. That's the kind of Parallel to that world is that, yes, everything is out there, but that also means that every single audience for that particular subgenre is out there as well.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, the unique piece is not the art, it's like the way you approach the person.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, totally, totally, and that interaction that you can create with that individual, you know like human connection, is a Really big part of this process. I think so, and I think that that will. That can never be the same. You know, you can draw something exactly the same way, but you can't speak to someone in the exact same way.
Speaker 1:
No, like the human element is the unique piece. Yeah, yeah, I think so and that's why you end up with. People come back to you. You know, over and over and over again and you're like well, the other person across town is better than me, but, like you know, it's like that Human element. Yeah your clients come back to you for totally. I think, that's something really important to Keep in mind. This like you're not actually selling tattoos, you know selling selling is kind of a weird word. You're not getting paid to tattoo somebody. That's part of it. You're getting paid to connect with somebody.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, totally, and helping someone connect with themselves to which is incredible. Yes, yeah, it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:
Can you speak a little bit to like? You told me at some point that your mom had a tattoo shop.
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:
Can you speak a little bit to like? Being a kid in that environment Must have been a really different type of shop. Then, like you're walking into now in the Bay Area.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, I was really, really small so I don't have much memory of it. I remember the harshness of the environment, you know. I remember the effect that it had on her. I remember Sitting it, getting dropped off at Hooters a lot and getting sat on the counter and just work in the soda gun.
Speaker 1:
There's like not a lot of that I remember about like family friendly, right yeah oh my god, yeah, the girls loved me there. I would just. Is that your queer root?
Speaker 2:
I think it might be Just maybe.
Speaker 1:
Like chicken wings and boobs.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, chicken wings and boobs and soda guns. It's perfect, yeah, but yeah no. I don't remember a lot about being in that shop. I remember, I remember the stories you know which have had an impact on me, and I mean for free to share, if you want to share a story. Yeah, I don't, I don't. Yeah, I don't know. You know, I think it's too illegal.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, okay, did you, was it were there like tattoo artist, friends of your mom's that would like hang out around your family and your childhood.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that also had a lot of like negative impact and just like gnarly Violence guns sort of thing very different.
Speaker 1:
I would call chair.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, really scary stuff, you know. Luckily I was really small, I don't remember a lot of it, but getting told the story is like a teenager is almost more traumatic, you know, because then you like remember, like feeling unsafe, and you're like, oh, that's why.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, how long did the the tree keep a shot?
Speaker 2:
Um, I have no idea. Okay, I think it was a really short period of time. I Remember my dad Was also a tattooer at one point.
Speaker 1:
Oh really, yeah, he was no dad.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, he did mostly like. I Don't want to say traditional, that feels like the wrong word. We grew up, our my family is deeply rooted in, like the punk rock culture hardcore scene, so Tattooing was just kind of a part of that. They're an extension. Yeah, it's totally an extension. I mean he has fuck you in a variety of places on his body. Yeah, and so does my mother actually. Yeah, and it's just, like you know, just trying super hard to look tough and Like, have that armor to the world. Interesting how was what?
Speaker 1:
what did they Say? I mean, we're gonna talk about them in less of a. You know you don't have to go super deep with this, but like what it how they feel about you wanting to be a tattoo artist, since they both have been touched by the Tattoo artistry.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think that they were both Kind of like oh no, like, here we go you know where she's gonna do that? Yeah, okay, kind of like of course, but and like accepting, but I don't know how to explain how they felt.
Speaker 1:
Not too excited about it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, just kind of like alright, we put you through art school, now you're just going to go be a tattoo artist. Sweet.
Speaker 1:
Did they try to encourage you to go another way? Were you like? Did they try to make you be a lawyer or something?
Speaker 2:
No, absolutely not. I think that ever since just being a kid, I was just so stubborn and I was so righteous and, being exactly who I was, no matter in what circumstance, had become of my childhood. So they knew that once a decision was made in my mind, all they could do was support, and that's where they ended up being. You know all they've been nothing but supportive after, like, the initial thought of like, oh shit, fuck, here we go. Like here we go there. She's going on that strange path and there's nothing we can do about it. So all we can do is root for her and just be there for her in any way we can. You know, which is wonderful and I could not be more appreciative because that's a really wonderful space to be in, you know, to have your parental support on a career path. That is pretty normal now in today's day and age.
Speaker 1:
It's normal, but it's still not mainstream. I would say yeah, it's not mainstream, even though there's so many tattoo artists and there's so much tattoo art and I think it's clear to most people that it will keep going. It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:
Totally yeah, and I think that it was kind of always something that was known, especially in my auntie's eyes. She had bought me a tattoo machine when I was 16 years old and it was like here you go, kid. I did not approve of this, I remember, so you know, it was kind of faded in a strange, strange way I do still have it. I do still have it yeah.
Speaker 1:
I think it will be a price possession in the shop in your corner I'll frame it, yeah, so why did you go to art school? I went to art school Because you could have gotten, you know, gotten onto a prentice at 18. You didn't have to go to art school.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I got heavily pressured by my grandparents. For sure, they are also diehard artists and I couldn't be more appreciative of that and for the support of me being a creative as well. But you know, like grandparents are as grandparents do, and they're really stuck in thinking that there's only one path to success, which means education, which is just not true anymore, because it really doesn't set you up for much. I mean, I learned a lot in school and it was really really incredible to have that experience and I'm so privileged to have gotten to have that experience. But if you put your mind to it, you can learn anything. I mean, everything's so accessible now, you know. So yeah, long story short, I did get heavily pressured to go to school, but it was a good experience and I think it was more about finding myself and the truth of what I want to do, rather than it setting me up for a career path, you know, because the things that I learned in art school are helpful somewhat for tattooing. But I think that just this apprenticeship is probably going to teach me more, you know.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, once again, it's like the artist kind of. It's maybe a 25% of what you'll be actually doing, Exactly.
Speaker 2:
And that part of me already existed, you know. It was just kind of stressing it more in those situations and just challenging it with, like I think where it will come in is knowing how to interpret different prompts of what people want and stuff like that, because that's the majority of what art school is is oh, do this and then you have to do it in your specific way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
How do you feel about the whole business side of being a tattoo artist, that you're essentially self-employed?
Speaker 2:
I'm really curious about it. I think that it's mostly excitement about eventually being my own boss, because I've been in workplaces where it was just a lot harder to manage that specific element and you know Say more the workplaces like selling your art at the fairs no, no, no More. So just like coffee shop jobs and stuff like that. That's where being self-employed feels comfortable to me, because I have a platform where I have been selling my art for a while now and it really is about like marketing yourself, which is interesting, and I think that I'll get more comfortable in that as time goes on. So it's mostly just excitement. You know I have curiosity about the depth of what it will entail, but I think it's mostly just excitement.
Speaker 1:
What's your relationship with money?
Speaker 2:
I don't know.
Speaker 1:
This is a big question. Yeah, that's a big question, so just take a crack at it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, all right, all right.
Speaker 1:
How do you feel about money?
Speaker 2:
There's a lot of guilt behind money in my mind. You know I am stubborn and don't like to accept a lot of help, but I have a lot of help, which is beautiful.
Speaker 1:
So what the guilt is about having to help, like how you can pay it back or how you can deliver on that promise that I was at the guilt.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's exactly the guilt. It's just being like oh, someone's giving me something, I need to do it 10 times harder in return you know, but as far as spending habits go, I feel like I have fairly healthy spending habits as well as a relationship in that regard. It's more so just the concept of accepting help. That is hard for me.
Speaker 1:
What about when you are? You know, imagine yourself like tattooing, right? So you are early on in your career, you're not charging very much, right? But say you have a client who comes in and like, I had this one client who was a very regular when I was pretty young in my career and he would come in and he would give me a hundred bucks immediately and this was 15 years ago, so a hundred bucks then was now probably like one more right, like inflation wise. So it felt like a shit ton of money to me, you know. So he would come in and he'd be like my here's a hundred bucks, that's for you, it's your tip you know, and I would just be like, oh my God, it just meant so much to me. You know, like he had a construction business, he made good money, like he owned his house, he had a wife and a bunch of kids, like he was doing fine, but like to me that was so much money. So I felt so like I don't know what to do with the amount of like gratitude I have for that, because it's so much to me to have this person come in, get tattooed by me regularly, love my work, and I was like really starting out Like I didn't. I was like I'll do my best on you, but it's not going to be like the best tattoo you can get in the world. And he felt like it was the best tattoo you could get in the world. Like he was so into my work and still is. He still comes to see me right With that feeling of him coming in and just sending me a hundred bucks immediately. You know, I was I don't know really like what was for him. I think he just didn't want to forget to tip me, or maybe he just felt like it was a good way to start a session. I don't really know, you know, but I just it really set us up in this way where I was like I will do the best I can do on you. I will like work so hard for you, right, because I was so grateful.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
In that case, like that person has always been amazing. Like never took advantage of me in any way. Right, like that person has always been awesome. And in other ways, people who are overly generous right, when you have guilt about being helped being given something you tend to like. Let them set up all the boundaries.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
So like money can really connect with a lot of like issues, right you have about your self worth.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I'm really curious to see where that triggers that specific thing in me and the interactions that I will have, because I definitely like I can. I feel like I'm going to relate to that very heavily and just trying to figure out how to price your work is probably going to be a Well, I'll price it for you.
Speaker 1:
Okay, great At first and then later you're going to have to price it yourself. Yeah, I think you know it can be really hard to you. Know, I don't know your class background, but I'm assuming it's pretty working class. Yeah, when you start to charge your rate, you're a grown, graduated tattoo artist and you're even, like you know, at first, being like it's going to be $300, being like that's so much money, like to a client they're expecting to pay you that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
But for you to ask for that, just to even say it out loud, can feel so intense.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's going to. I think for sure. I'm curious about that. I think that maybe it'll just become second nature at some point, because tattooing is a procedure, you know You're giving a lot of yourself to create this piece on someone's physical form that is semi-permanent. Again, nothing is permanent, I suppose, but I think that when you're taking a risk of dealing with their blood if you look close to them physically, like there's a lot right.
Speaker 1:
Sometimes you poke yourself and then you're taking a risk of like do they have some more kind of a blood disease that I have to now worry about? Like there's a lot goes into it, right, You're taking a risk by tattooing somebody.
Speaker 2:
Totally so. Yeah, I think that it will become second nature, but it's going to be a transition. You know, just like this, everything, you know, everything is going to be a transition.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, it is going to be a transition.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it has been already.
Speaker 1:
Where is your phone? I'm going to tell you right now a book to put in your list of things to read. What is the book? It's called Emotional Currency.
Speaker 2:
Oh boy Got it.
Speaker 1:
The writer is Kate Somebody, you'll find it. It's. There's only one name. That Sweet. How do you feel about the apprenticeship including so many like? My apprenticeship did not include reading books. How do you feel about doing the extra stuff?
Speaker 2:
I mean, I'm just having the best time. You know, I feel like this is partly why I chose this apprenticeship is because it is so much more than that, you know, and it's not just about learning the craft, it's about learning yourself, and I think that it's just such an incredible opportunity to coexist alongside someone who is willing to share that part of themselves so I can learn this part of myself. You know, I think that it's great for my brain in particular, because I love having tasks to do and I love projects a lot and I love learning. So it's just been really fun for me to have, like, not like a million things to focus on, but I have a lot of different things to think about, you know, and that really helps me get things done. It's to not just be hyperfixated on one thing, but to have like a balance, a myriad of things to think about.
Speaker 1:
How are you keeping it all organized?
Speaker 2:
Uh, no, tap. Yeah, I have lots of lists, the magic iPhone, yeah, the magic of the iPhone as well as just like journaling every day and writing down what I need to do. You know, naturally, being a human, some things don't get done and you have to be gracious with yourself when that doesn't happen. But, yeah, I think I'm doing a good job and I will just continue to do a better job. So it's just mostly excitement. Again, that word keeps coming up.
Speaker 1:
When you start tattooing, I'm thinking well, we'll see if it feels like a good timing. You know that you're ready, but when you start tattooing early next year, do you have a first client in mind?
Speaker 2:
I have a list.
Speaker 1:
You have a list of people.
Speaker 2:
Okay, I do. Yeah, I have a list of just people in my life who have been waiting for me to get certified because I just don't. I didn't feel comfortable tattooing people Without having the knowledge. I tattooed a couple people after having been harassed and begged multiple times, over and over again. But I do have a list of people with specific projects in mind that are relatively simple, that I could begin on, which is really exciting. So, not a particular client, it's mostly just like who is going to make the trip happen, because a lot of them are up in Reno Tahoe area. Yeah, so we'll see.
Speaker 1:
Okay, I mean, might not be any of them for your first one. Yeah, it might not be For your first one, it's probably going to be your own leg.
Speaker 2:
That would be great. Yeah, or the wrist that I started and didn't finish.
Speaker 1:
It'll be your leg, because you need two hands to properly tattoo. Okay, yeah, that's super fair.
Speaker 2:
That's why this one didn't come out too great.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, arm doing your own arm is advanced.
Speaker 2:
I'll let you fix that one then. Yeah, I will, maybe.
Speaker 1:
I mean you'll get there someday. I'm happy to tattoo you. But yeah, it'll be processed. Why do you think I chose you as my very first and only?
Speaker 2:
Oh, I don't know. I really don't know. Why did you choose me?
Speaker 1:
It sounds so like old person, but you remind me of myself.
Speaker 2:
Oh, that makes me really happy.
Speaker 1:
Maybe you relate to people. I think most people don't understand tattooing in a way that I understand it and not say that they're wrong but I always wanted to. I knew that if I were to apprentice somebody, I couldn't see it as a task to check off my list, but it had to be a spiritual journey and I needed somebody who got that. Other people who approached me and first I just wasn't ready, sure. And then when they approached me five years ago, I would have been like, I need more time, I'm not ready. So, yeah, when you were 18, I guess that would have been. I mean, maybe it would have been fine, we would have just done it anyway. But yeah, it was important to me that it'd be somebody that I could relate to on a different level than just being like you're here to learn this skill and I'm going to give you a bunch of tasks and you're going to do them and then that'll be it, like it's not cut and dry for me.
Speaker 2:
I mean nothing really is yeah.
Speaker 1:
I knew I had to find and I knew that I wouldn't be looking for that person, that they would find me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, totally. You know, that's so cool. Yeah, I mean, I felt so similarly. You know, it wasn't really like a conversation that like we consciously had, I don't think. It was just like oh, like this is a potential possibility, and then it just kind of became reality. I remember the butterflies I got.
Speaker 1:
Lulu I know Lulu is locked up in a crate being like let me out.
Speaker 2:
I remember the butterflies I got when you made an Instagram post about just like updating your life and you were like I'm possibly going to be looking for an apprentice in the future, hi Sailor.
Speaker 1:
And I was like that's so funny. I don't even remember that.
Speaker 2:
Oh my God, I recorded it. It's on my phone.
Speaker 1:
It's really funny.
Speaker 2:
And I was like okay, all right, we're doing it, we're doing it.
Speaker 1:
I mean, you know, I had to at every step I had to like. When we originally talked about it it was a year and a half or so About whenever my first tattoo from you was yeah. You know, I was like, okay, this could feel really good and right. And then you still had school to finish, right. So I was like I don't know it's. You know, like I don't know you very well, like you could want to stay in San Diego after you're done, like you could change your mind. So I didn't, I wasn't like, okay, this is happening, really. Until you moved here, right, because even through the summer I was like you could decide you want to stay back there for any number of reasons.
Speaker 2:
So many yeah.
Speaker 1:
And I was like I'm either way, it's fine, Like I'm not going to feel, like I'm like if this works it's great, and if it doesn't work it's fine, you know, but I was like this is the first person I can see doing this with.
Speaker 2:
That's so special.
Speaker 1:
But, yeah, I felt it also felt really good about the space I had around it where I was like she must move here and we must do this, where I was like I'd love to, and also, if it doesn't happen like her life is like her life, like she should make the right decisions for her.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and again, that's just another bounty of reasons why I respect you so deeply. You know, it's just the way that you think is so beautiful, thank you.
Speaker 1:
You're welcome. It was really funny to me when you needed to do an internship remember for school.
Speaker 2:
Oh, my God yeah.
Speaker 1:
And I signed like I like gave some assignments and signed off on it, like helped you get that credit by like starting apprenticeship early, essentially, and then I ended up on that list for your school right.
Speaker 2:
So I went to San Diego.
Speaker 1:
State so I didn't realize that I was on the list for students to like intern with.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
So when I got an email from Gabby, who I don't you never met her.
Speaker 2:
I never met her. We've been like DMing on Instagram though, oh cute.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, when Gabby emailed me, I ignored her email. I didn't, I was like a spam, like I didn't think anything of it. And then when she called me again, I was like who is this person? What does she want from?
Speaker 2:
me. Yeah, like what's happening right now.
Speaker 1:
So, I, you know, responded to her and I was like you want an internship? Like I don't know how I can really help you, and she was like I'll do anything I can help you. Social media I'm really interested in the business part of it. So I was like okay, and I thought she was like a person who liked my work.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, you thought it was random.
Speaker 1:
Well, I just thought she found me on Instagram.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And then when I went to her Instagram, I realized she wasn't following me. So I was like how does she know about me?
Speaker 2:
Like what yeah?
Speaker 1:
But it took me like a couple of weeks of interacting with her to then finally realize that she was coming from San Diego State and I was like wait sailor in San Diego State and I emailed the guy who was like your supervisor and I was like dude, what is happening?
Speaker 2:
Like why am I on this list?
Speaker 1:
Like how are people? How's this person finding me? Because I didn't. Yeah, I was like I'm just like one little person with one little business, like I can't take on more people and you specified to him that it was like a very personal thing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's okay, it's not your fault.
Speaker 1:
But hey, it's cool that it ended up that way or. Gabby is a treasure.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, she's wonderful.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but it was just so funny to me, it was like wait a second, you were like what's happening. Like random student from San Diego State, because I was like I felt kind of special. I was like, oh, she's like really into my work, yeah, and she like didn't, even it wasn't following me.
Speaker 2:
I was like okay, oh, never mind, never mind.
Speaker 1:
But it was great. You know, for a couple of months we interacted and actually I had her look a lot at K'Hinde Wiley's work online and we studied it a little bit together and had her read the other book that you read and we talked about what we don't talk about when we talk about that. Oh, awesome. Yeah, I was just like, okay, I'll start a little internship with you and see what happens. That's so cute, yeah, so it was kind of great, but it was funny. It was like Salah brought Gabby into my life.
Speaker 2:
Aw, I love that how random, how random connections?
Speaker 1:
Well, thank you for coming and telling me about your current positionality in life.
Speaker 2:
Woo, thanks for asking questions.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, we're going to do this again at some point when you are tattooing. Yeah, you can tell me and the others more about how that feels to you once you start.
Speaker 2:
I'm so excited to start and know how it feels.
Speaker 1:
Thank you.