I met Natasha many years ago when she came to me as a client. The next time I saw her was at Old Crow, under the tutelage of Hannah Wolf (link to Hannah's episode on Ink Medicine below). Very recently Natasha opened her private studio in the heart of the Dogpatch neighborhood, two blocks from the best coffee in town. I met her there on a sunny Sunday morning to talk shop, marvel at how sleek and beautiful her studio is, ask her some rude questions and record it all for your pleasure.
The sound quality in this one is fun, you can almost imagine yourself sitting in the studio with us, which is located on a big busy street with lots of traffic going by.
Siberian-born tattoo artist, Natasha Tsozik, is an open book. She talks about tattooing in Russia, and then in the States, culture specific beauty standards, how she met her husband of about a decade, being an English teacher and also an illustrator, the connection between Yiddish and underground prison culture, and spoiler alert, she isn't even Jewish, and much much more.
This conversation has such a unique flavor, you won't be able to get enough.
find Natasha Tsozik on instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/natasha_tsozik/
on her website at:
https://natashatsozik.com/
and in person at Open Studios in SF, November 18-19, 2023 at:
2344 3rd st
Hannah Wolf's episode:
https://www.micahriot.com/2022/12/20/ep-5-throw-me-to-the-wolves-specifically-hannah-wolf/
You can connect with me as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at
https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/
my website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
Episode 38 transcript:
Speaker 1:
I'm really really finicky about all the details that I have in my space. I have to like I must surround myself with stuff that makes me happy. So even books, all the little postcards like figurines. I don't know the shape of a couch, it's stuff like that.
Speaker 2:
Hello, my darlings. I am here in another studio, in a new, beautiful new tattoo space of my friend, natasha. Would you please introduce yourself with your name, your last name too, because you're known as your full name, so I want to hear you pronounce your last name. I feel like I do Don't do it justice how many years you've been tattooing, where are you from? And let's see your favorite color.
Speaker 1:
Okay, hi, I'm Natasha Tsozik. I'm from Siberia, from Russia, so I grew up in the snows of Siberia. I've been tattooing since 2012. And I also apprentice with Hannah since 2021. And my favorite color is blue.
Speaker 2:
As my couch when you started tattooing in 2012, was it under somebody or you just totally self-taught?
Speaker 1:
No, like before that, before I apprentice with Hannah Wolf, as you know her. Yes, I was self-taught because in Russia, where I started, there is no such thing in general as apprenticeship, so there is no apprenticeship instituted as a thing. So basically everyone just starts tattooing on their own and eventually they go to a shop, they are surrounded by other artists who train them or tell them what they're doing wrong, etc.
Speaker 2:
So that is incredible, because I look at a lot of work coming out of Russia or used to, less so now but these tattoo artists coming out of Russia, their technique they're perfect and they're not a dot out of place. It seems like the standard for Russian tattoo artists from what I saw in the last decade. So I'm just amazed to hear that everybody is self-taught.
Speaker 1:
Well, you definitely didn't see all the artists in Russia that are not really good. There are a lot of those, especially if you don't really know what your mistakes are and you are self-taught and you are not ready for any type of critique. So the only people you see are those who are not like that, who are ready to teach themselves and to be taught by other people, by their coworkers or you know. I guess they're just not called apprentices, you're just a beginner artist and what it means. It means that just everyone just gives you advice or you ask them for advice if you're open to it.
Speaker 2:
So were you in several shops there. No, no.
Speaker 1:
Like, when I started out, I just practiced on my sister, my husband, so they have all those nasty, stupid tattoos and then we moved to America in 2013. So basically, I didn't have much time to go to a shop there in Russia. I just was trying to understand if I even wanted to do that. And then we moved to America and I was like I can't work because of my visa status, so I didn't. So a lot of the years I just I worked as an illustrator, stuff like that, so I couldn't work. And then the moment I was able to, I started working with Hannah.
Speaker 2:
So she gave you a formal apprenticeship at that point? Yes, she did.
Speaker 1:
So how it happened. Basically we got introduced and then we went to a conference together and then we wiped there. We were like my friends and she invited me to work together at her shop. But then she saw that and it was after pandemic, right. She saw that I really needed some guidance and she offered me an apprenticeship and I was like, yeah, I'm glad to, I really needed that.
Speaker 2:
Talk about perfect technique, like she's so proficient at just all the styles that I see her do. Her work is flawless, Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1:
And I was really happy that she did that. She basically gave me a kickstart in my career.
Speaker 2:
So going back to Russia and the tattoo scene there. So I left Russia when I was 12. So I never really got to experience it as a young adult or even a teenager so much. But there's such a looks-oriented culture across every discipline there, right Like. When I see the people I see on Instagram who are tattoo artists there, they're always like they look perfect, they like their work is perfect. Everything's very looks perfect, right Like. How do you conceive of that? What do you think about that as far as culture goes? What do you think about that as far as I guess? I'm trying to ask, like, in my estimation, art is not to be flawless In technique, sure, but art art has. We're humans and art is made by humans on human skin. So it's not gonna, once it settles and heals, it's not gonna look 100% perfect. There's gonna be something that has fallen out and a little patch that's lighter, right, and everything coming out of Russia is so glitzy, glamorous, at least on the outside. Do you have thoughts about that?
Speaker 1:
I mean obviously just the way how people kind of learned to present themselves and you write about the looks culture. So you have to be perfect and even if you're trying to avoid that, it's really deep in you and it's ingrained. That's I guess why, like, even Instagrams are like that. So every picture has to be perfect in different kinds of ways. But then obviously it's a tattoo, so it heals as it heals, but also there's no magic in there, no there's no magic in there, for sure, but it's like also.
Speaker 2:
I'm thinking about the way that they look like the people who I see, tattoo artists. It's like their full face of makeup, perfectly applied, their long hair. They look like models. Every time I look at Russia tattoo artist, I'm like why do you have to look like that? You're a tattoo artist? Like be messy, be weird. Like why are you wearing a full face of makeup? That's kind of why I'm like, why Everything is so put together.
Speaker 1:
And then what you mean, but personally I know different people, so they're not all like that, they're not all like that. They all try to be perfect in how they present themselves like being this stereotypical kind of Russian model. Right, I don't know, it's their choice, I guess, but I know different people you know, Because I was there. I was part of that culture.
Speaker 2:
Right, and that's probably my next question, it's like you don't present that way. Like you have short hair, you don't really wear makeup. You wear, you know, cool clothes that are comfortable, right, like you don't wear heels the way that some of the women coming at Russia do. And how did you escape? Did you use to? How did you escape that? How did you make the transition to being like your own self versus like fitting into that culture?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it takes a while, I don't know. You have to change your mindset, I guess. Like at some point I was like, no, I just, I only can wear something that is comfortable. And, I don't know, I really like bright clothes. So like, even if I'm not wearing, high heels right, I still kind of can be out of the place somewhere you know, especially in Russia.
Speaker 2:
Did you always stick out as a young person or self, not somebody who fit into the mainstream culture?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah but like obviously kind of depended on the style of like clothes, what was on brand, you know, and I tried like all kind of different hairstyles. You know, I had long hair, I had like long blonde hair and I was like this girly girly trying wearing heels etc. Etc. Like different kind of stages of my life, you know.
Speaker 2:
Just didn't feel like you.
Speaker 1:
I mean, at that time it felt like me you know and then I get bored with stuff. I just tried different, different kind of you know ways of clothing and my mom really kind of helped me in a way. So she really was all for you know for me to try different clothes. You know some like not really you know stereotypical lens and like weird shapes, etc, etc. She was really supportive of that.
Speaker 2:
That's amazing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and she would like make us clothes that I really loved, you know.
Speaker 2:
She would like make clothes for you guys like so close.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
Awesome.
Speaker 1:
She really liked what you made for us and she has a really good kind of style.
Speaker 2:
What was school like for you? Like being this different artsy kid with like homemade clothes. It was torture.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, what helped me, like I was really bored at school Actually, I don't even remember that well because I was bored and I don't remember stuff when I was bored so but I attended art school for kids Okay that helped me.
Speaker 2:
You think like on Sundays or like during the whole week.
Speaker 1:
During the week. It's like what? Four days a week, like you go to art school.
Speaker 2:
But you also went to regular school. Yeah, exactly, so you had to double the schools. It wasn't like an art, like how, here you can have like an art school, that's your school, yeah.
Speaker 1:
No, it was like two schools. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so you have a secondary education basically. Mm-hmm. That's only what you have like different classes on different, I don't know for example, art history or like how you like composition, or like you create a still life painting or like a portrait, etc. And it was really really all like really classical kind of art oriented.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it took some art classes when I was a kid, in Russia too. It was so like looking back on it now I'm like that was so boring. Yeah, it's gonna be boring. They don't make it fun for the kids.
Speaker 1:
But yeah, it was really like that. But what helped me was the community of the kids who went to that art school. It's basically where my you know they were my friends because I didn't make a lot of friends at like regular school and they changed schools pretty often, so art school was just something constant in my life for several years, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, are you still friends with any of?
Speaker 1:
those kids from that time. Yeah, yeah, my best friend. I made friends with her at that art school.
Speaker 2:
Are they still in Russia? They're still in Russia. Yeah, what city are you from?
Speaker 1:
I'm from Tomsk. It's in like the middle of Siberia. Basically it's like T-O-M-S-K and it's a college city. Yeah, it's a big university there.
Speaker 2:
I took the Trans-Siberian train one time when I was 19 years old, boring. I loved it, I was 19. So it was, you know, had this very like sort of romantic Romantic science shit in my brain, and it was winter and I was going from Japan to Russia, oh my god. So I took a boat to Vladivostok and then from there took the train across to Moscow and it was Maybe boring, yeah, but also amazing. At that time, you know just like sat in red books and like talk to people and I feel like I wrote by your town somewhere. No, probably not well, not to close, but you know, like in the vicinity.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, so my town, is sort of like a appendix, the railroad. It goes there, right, but it kind of To go to other parts of Russia. You have to do this like little I don't know, turn, and then you go to another town and then they connect you to another train and then you go on that like other Railroad whatever.
Speaker 2:
Okay, it's an offshoot.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, exactly, but you know, it's Siberia.
Speaker 2:
I went through Siberia. You did. Have you been to the lake?
Speaker 1:
by call.
Speaker 2:
No no it's far.
Speaker 1:
It's far from I've heard it's really beautiful.
Speaker 2:
It's really beautiful, even just gone by it on the train. So how did you meet your husband?
Speaker 1:
Oh, it is a funny story. It's really funny story. So basically I had a boyfriend at that time and his best friend. He really wanted my ex To meet my now husband and for them to make friends. I don't know why wait.
Speaker 2:
Your boyfriend at the time had a friend and the friend knew them both Exactly and wanted to introduce your boyfriend and you're now husband. Exactly so they could be friends. Exactly Got it.
Speaker 1:
Exactly, and both of them didn't like each other. They hated each other, like they, you know, felt weird and I was like, whatever, you know, dima, nice to meet you and that's it. But after a while I, you know, broke off with that ex and Dima was having a celebration of New Year's at his place and he invited me and that friend who introduced us basically To, you know why did he invite you?
Speaker 2:
cuz he liked you already, probably at the start as a love at first sight?
Speaker 1:
I don't know. I usually have to ask him.
Speaker 2:
We should have brought him along Truly.
Speaker 1:
So I went to, you know, to his place to for New Year's Eve and then we had so much fun that we didn't pick up phone to let in the other friend. He didn't drop by, he just wanted to like tell us that like he was like at some other place, whatever, you know, we didn't hang him dry, I was like we didn't care.
Speaker 2:
So it was just the two of you.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it was just the two of us.
Speaker 2:
So every New Year's Eve is basically our celebration of like, how our relationship started and the New Year's Eve for Listeners of this podcast is a huge deal. In Russia, this is the biggest holiday we have. It really is on the level of your birthday, if not more. You know it's the time when you get the best gifts Was a little kid. You get to stay up past midnight, so it's it's like Christmas, but it's even more. And for young people, right, we like when you are past the kind of danger of childhood you would probably be with your friends more than your family. You might also be with your family, might combine the two sort of worlds in your world Like that's where you introduce your friends to each other, like that's kind of it's the biggest holiday we have. So for kind of the two of you to be alone in that day is unusual.
Speaker 1:
It is, it is. So now, new Year's Eve is, you know, our personal, yeah, kind of celebration holiday. We still like it, kind of spending just two of us just together and we give presents to each other. It's fun. Yeah, and we celebrated. Like you know, russian people celebrated almost like Christmas, so we have a Christmas tree, right.
Speaker 2:
Well, we call it the New Year's tree and we have a red star on the top for communism, exactly.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. It's basically what happened, as when communism. Well, you know, when communists established in Russia, they wanted to cancel all the religion. So they're like whatever, let's move Christmas celebration to the year.
Speaker 2:
Well, they wanted to keep the morale of the people, and people need holidays to keep them all up, something to look forward to a break from work. So they wanted to leave that for the people, right. But they wanted to make it their own and not religious, exactly exactly so. That's hence the red star on the right off tree, which you know. I've looked for that shit on eBay Like I would love to have that red star from my childhood on my current tree that I have. I can't. Well, you can find old ones, but like the electricity is different, right. Yeah, so Mike is it gonna blow up the tree, so I have.
Speaker 1:
I guess you can get a red star right and put some Christmas lights in it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I know. Electrical socket true, I just I have a, you know, I have this like Need for it to be directly from my childhood and not something I remake, although you're right, that would be probably the best option.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you don't want to put your, you know, set your house on fire, I guess from.
Speaker 2:
Russian like so be it. Electricity Right right on brand. Yeah, so is that your favorite holiday?
Speaker 1:
It is so basically celebrate more New Year Eve and our birthdays, yeah your birthdays Close by. Okay, what a birthday minus in April and areas.
Speaker 2:
April what.
Speaker 1:
Elements yeah, and he is Mid-November, mid-november.
Speaker 2:
Scorpio, scorpio. Crazy combination, combination. I'm in Aries and Then I'm not currently with Scorpio. A lot of people in my life have been Scorpios. I love Scorpios.
Speaker 1:
Surely same to me. Yeah, it's weird. I have like a lot of friends. You know we're Scorpios and I like them pretty good.
Speaker 2:
I think it's a good combo. Mm-hmm, do you know if you have a Scorpio in your chart?
Speaker 1:
I don't remember. I checked, but like I don't remember stuff like that.
Speaker 2:
I can check for you afterwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will tell you. So.
Speaker 1:
You guys spent New Year's together, and then you were just together after exactly After, like in a couple of months, we moved in together and moved to his place. That's it, and two years later we got married. So basically, another thing at that night that we spent together, you know like. December 31st and January 1st. He's like looked at me, asked me in my full name. And then he's like will you marry me?
Speaker 2:
That first day.
Speaker 1:
On the first night. Yeah, somehow he asked me that, somehow he knew Somehow I said yes, so it was so weird. What?
Speaker 2:
are you guys drunk?
Speaker 1:
Obviously, yeah, okay, but like I mean, we both were drunk before no one, you know, nobody was asked other people to marry them, or, like you know, I said yes to some people that married you know, it's just somehow like you know you can you, and then we didn't get married straight away. We, you know, lived together for about two years and then we got married. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
It's really clear from social media and what people say is that your husband's obsessed with you. I'm sure it goes both ways, but I love that. I love that because you've been together now for a long time and you've gone through a lot of changes together. You move different country, dealing with not being able to work Right, like you come from a small snowy Russian town and you're here in like the bay, like there's a lot of different changes. How did you two stay growing together and not growing apart? It's gonna be hard work for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
But yeah, sometimes we have fights and then we talk and, you know, try to change stuff or, I don't know, discuss stuff, but like, in some ways we're really similar, but in other ways we're really different. So we kind of try to learn from each other. I don't know if it, you know, always works. I don't know what I know for myself that like I'll stay with him for a long time and that helps you. Just like have that as a.
Speaker 2:
As a knowledge in you that you're like that's not gonna change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Cuz, I guess, like in some other, relationship.
Speaker 1:
You can think like, oh what if they, you know, break off the relationship and you kind of have it On your mind Periodically? Right, I don't have that. I know that I will stay with that person.
Speaker 2:
Is it something you know as a Like it's a value you have for your life, like where you, if you commit, you commit. Or is it about Like soulmates, kind of a knowing, like what's the knowing? Yeah, it's not that like if I commit, I commit.
Speaker 1:
I just, you know, I'm just my specific husband is just this specific person. That's how I feel about him, cuz I like to burn bridges and before and my husband, like all the relationship I had is like if I get annoyed or bored, etc. I broke off those relationships like pretty easily and like completely Took those people out of my life like I was like whatever, bye, but it's somehow, it's different, yeah, yeah. And you don't know what the difference is. I don't know. No, I guess like I think. I think I'm gonna go with I guess, like I feel that he loves me very much he does, clearly.
Speaker 2:
I mean I've exchanged two words with him, all of, but it's still clear.
Speaker 1:
So, when you feel it, when you feel the love and you know, it helps to know that you'll get through everything.
Speaker 2:
That's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:
It is. But, yeah, I don't know how you can like, like Not change it, but like how you can aspire to it, like how you get it. You know, it's just, either it is or it's not. I agree, yeah, I agree, you just have to find a person or several people, you know, like that, yeah, not especially in the Bay.
Speaker 2:
I mean, especially in the Bay right, most people polyamorous, but also I just feel like it's. I Love the idea of like a knowing you know, and also For me. I've always left room for change In myself, you know, and and also in like the Somebody I used to be with. I didn't feel like I really knew them until Things went bad. Yeah like when things went bad, I was like who is this person? This is not the person I thought I married.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Um, so yeah, I think you know. If you like feel like you really know your person, I think that's where that knowing can come from, if you really feel like you truly know who they are and like you really know their heart and you know the possibilities of how they might act.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I agree, I agree, but we got like together pretty young. We were like what? 22 or something like, or we got married when 23. So we were like babies as I, you know look at it right now. So we went through stages where we're like fighting all the time. You know, we Kind of were two different people and we were trying to kind of Make something together right and we had to change in a way. And it's like, you know, you try to find compromise but still not to lose yourself and it can be hard for sure.
Speaker 2:
Well, especially, I think, because you're coming from a place where culture is so oriented towards the mainstream and how people get together, but you having kids is not really a question, right? Most people just have kids. That's what you're supposed to do. They look a certain way, they do certain jobs, like it's much more traditional In a lot of ways. So for a young couple coming out of that kind of space, coming to the States and living an alternative life, I feel like it's really different. You know it's, it's interesting, it's different, right, that you could grow in ways that were similar, like I'm assuming you guys are not interested in children, for example. I mean, we are, you are okay, it just didn't happen for us yet.
Speaker 1:
Okay, so you know.
Speaker 2:
So you do want to have a kid.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Okay, cool, I hope that happens to you.
Speaker 1:
I will see. You will see, like I haven't the meturosis, so you know. It makes it more difficult yeah yeah, it's like a chronic disease thing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah right, it's possible also still, but I know there's more involved.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and it's so interesting speaking of endometriosis. Like one in 10th, you know, women, I think I, you know have it, has it and it's so prevalent but it's so difficult to. It's like when a doctor tells you that you have it, so it's really difficult to find out Endometriosis well, I bet it's not that difficult, except they don't care to study it more. Yeah, yeah, that's another thing for sure. Yeah, well, it is difficult because you only can see that you have it If you have, like a surgery and they really looked inside of you and you know, saw that you have those.
Speaker 2:
What about a little camera?
Speaker 1:
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's what you said.
Speaker 1:
Like they just don't like study it enough. Yeah for sure. They don't even know why we have this Right. The variety in humans, okay.
Speaker 2:
So I was really curious when you said that you are somebody who cuts people off easily, or that you use to. Yeah, people are like friendships or other relationships, like certainly, because let me cut your arm off, leave it here, I'll chat to it, come back also back on. Yeah, so you have you broken up with a bunch of people, yeah. Do you ever sit down with them and say I don't want to be this relationship anymore, not with dating partners, but with friends like this friendship is only working for me. I just go.
Speaker 1:
I didn't talk. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I don't do this anymore, obviously. But nowadays even it's just yeah, you just grow apart. I guess that's how it was to. You just started doing other stuff, you know and what about with clients?
Speaker 2:
so client relationships can be layered, especially over time and years go by, people might set up any boundaries. How do you tend to work out the more difficult client relationships?
Speaker 1:
I'm pretty lucky with my clients. Yeah, I Can't say I have a lot of like difficult clients, not yet you know. No, I mean first of all a lot of people just are. They come to me because of my style and a lot of those people are really soft and and kind of Tend not to cross my boundaries. Yeah, sure, some of some of the people that I met can be like bossy a bit, but you know, I said boundaries.
Speaker 2:
And that's not to say you know that I have a lot of that happening too, but in the years you know, there's been here and there situations, right. Yeah so I think about that. What happens for other tattoo artists, like, if you like, I give a lot and I think you give a lot of yourself to the relationships you have with your clients, probably more than most the tortoise do, and I think that's where like things can happen, that can be messy.
Speaker 1:
Truly what helps, I guess, is Perfectly set a routine. So like when I start working with a client, first of all I Write down like I have a FAQ section on my website, right, and you can read everything that would follow, how everything would look like, and I want to make a video about that too. So, like what it is working with me, like what will you get?
Speaker 2:
Go ahead tell us yeah, okay, just something, some points.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, okay. So how do you usually start with? People all fill in the inquiry form on my website or they can directly email me, for example, and I ask them questions. You know about the project and if I kind of Think that we did project is a good fit, I tell them that, yeah, let's have a consultation and my consultations are mostly online, through, for example, like a zoom consultation, and the first one is just a 30 minutes consultation. There's like a little fee for that consultation and During the talk we discuss Everything that would you know happen, basically, and details of their project, what they want you know to have. Or maybe I tell them about limitation, limitations, of tattooing it, right, like I cannot do that, or you can do that, but it will look different.
Speaker 2:
Etc. Where's your line in the regards to somebody being very particular to you? Are you okay with people being very particular, like nitpicky almost? I have clients like that Okay so you don't, you don't necessarily need them to give you lots of freedom.
Speaker 1:
No no depends and People are different, right, and I definitely have some nitpicky clients or really specific what they about, what they want, and so what helps is I always ask them to send me Like reference images, right, maybe they're like crew drafts, even if they don't know how to draw. It doesn't matter. Just show me what in like, what shapes you want or like, just sketch something really quick and it's my job to turn it into a beautiful tattoo, right? So that, and also for some people, it helps to have Another type of consultation. I have another one and it's drawing together a consultation, and it is an hour long and it costs $1,500 and you'll get a draft like a stolen draft of a fox, even if you want a flower, you'll get a, you still get the fox. That same fox you always get the same fox and for tell me and you you'll get a sketch Exactly. No, it just costs like a my hour.
Speaker 2:
You are like tattoo time, yeah, yeah. So how does that work? It's still on zoom. It's on zoom and so you just do it on your iPad or you have your phone, like pointed at iPad.
Speaker 1:
Basically what, how you can do it on zoom. You can share your screen okay. And they see what I'm growing and what we do is basically we look at their reference images so we Get some new ones from internet, right, and I have. I just put everything together like this draft of the project that they want. Mm-hmm, and an hour is not enough for me to finalize this sketch, but it's okay for us to get like a better understanding what exactly they want. For example, like if they have a like, a specific kind of idea, they want this project, they want like those elements and okay, you like, we'll put them.
Speaker 2:
Put it together.
Speaker 1:
You know, put them together and like do you think this should be this size in relativity? Do this other? You know, so, yeah, part of the project, etc. Etc. And then I just just quickly, maybe a lane over you know, sketch that thing that we came up together, and at the end they're like oh nice, and now I understand that we are moving in the right direction and the next step, Basically the sketch that I send them. They're not so afraid that you know it will fit to the idea that they won't write.
Speaker 2:
They trust you More, the interest me more. Does it not make you feel self-conscious? The drought in front of somebody watching?
Speaker 1:
Oh it is. It makes me feel really some conscious. I Don't know, I have to work with it. And I do? I don't have a lot of those consultations, uh-huh. Luckily people are more trustful, yeah, but it's fine, like I, I'm not saying that the people who need those during together consultations are not like trusting, just you know something they need because I send sketches beforehand.
Speaker 2:
You do.
Speaker 1:
I do, but not too much in advance. It's like I send them the week Of their appointment. Yeah for example, I draw, I take two Wednesdays or Saturday, right, and I have consultations, and I draw for the week on Monday and Tuesday. Uh, so, basically, if you have your appointment on Wednesday, I'll send you your sketch on Monday. Uh, anyway, we can go like back and forth with revisions, maybe. Or like they say, oh, I love it.
Speaker 2:
Perfect, see you on Wednesday. You're very generous. The revisions thing, the back and forth thing, made me crazy, so I stopped doing it.
Speaker 1:
I do that. I do that because I come from the illustration world. Basically, I used to be freelance illustrator, so I'm pretty fine with that. I'm used to, you know, getting revisions. It's fine, it's you know, and I don't want to pressure them into getting something they Don't feel comfortable getting, you know yeah, of course, yeah, yeah of course, and I always say to my clients that even if we're going back and forth with revisions right, and you still want to change something, I was like you come up to the appointment and we'll just sit down and draw together, yeah, but at least you kind of know the direction we're working on beforehand?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, for sure. What? Um? What would your ideal client session then? Sort of If entail, ideal session with ideal client having it like?
Speaker 1:
I don't know, I see usually like most of my clients, they just Come then describe it typical. Yeah, so like people just Come to my studio and let them in and I tell them oh, here's some tea that you can have.
Speaker 2:
Is the ideal client drink the tea. Yes, yes, ideal client must take the tea.
Speaker 1:
All my clients. You have to have the tea. Uh, it have some. It have some sign in it.
Speaker 2:
I don't know If you don't drink my tea. I don't know if this is gonna work out.
Speaker 1:
Sure, no, I have water. If you don't like tea, uh yeah. And then they fill in the consent form and everything is chill. They like the music I have. It's obviously mostly, like you know, chill people. Do you prefer to have your own music or do you prefer them to choose the music I usually put my music on, but it's not like uh, something like really specific, you know, or really heavy, that maybe I need something that like with words Uh-huh, it's like uh, so I'm not distracted. You know, when I'm working I need to focus on work, and it's something that I'm gonna helps me to focus. Yeah, music or like the you know background thing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, no, I agree, um, but it's funny when clients because I will usually just be like what do you want to listen to? I'll put on whatever you like, and sometimes they will, but mostly, like 75% of the time, they'll be like no, whatever you want, it's all about your comfort, and I'm like okay, you're gonna be listening to like 90s Russian pop, you're not gonna like it. So just tell me what you want, because the shit I listen to is not that obscure, but for them it is.
Speaker 1:
you know, I definitely did that to some of my clients. Uh, once we had like a long session and I put some A Russian rock from 90s. It was funny. Which one? It is a good playlist with everything, all the Russian rock.
Speaker 2:
I do love Russian rock from 90s yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so it's fun, but like the lyrics are like ridiculous if you think about that. Yeah, and they're mostly about weather. It's like you know about seasons and we had just girls girls. Just like romantic, or like suffering, like if a girl you know said no, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:
I mean some of favorite shit. Is you get any, oisin? Do you know the shit? Yeah, it's like the most suffering boy music ever.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, it's funny, yeah, so music like that. I don't usually listen to a lot of Russian music, though. Like it's something what I do listen to is like 80s, 90s music, you know, just random stuff and what happens, sometimes funny, like I was like the specific day right as like oh, let me put this playlist on, for example, it's like 80s music or like new wave or whatever. You know something, something. And my client comes in and said oh, I love this playlist, it's like exactly what I usually listen to, and it happens a lot. Yeah, so I change a playlist and like the next client, yeah, like, oh, that's my music.
Speaker 2:
So I think this is a lot in sync. Yeah, you're in sync with your clients.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:
So do you like a chatty client or a client that's just like chilling, listening to the music and it's pretty quiet?
Speaker 1:
Um, it depends. Um, so I don't usually talk a lot Myself because I, especially when I start the lines, I just have to be silent. Basically, I'm focusing on the crispiness of the lines. I cannot talk or like be distracted. Um, so they can just relax. You know, obviously they want to talk, they, they can, and I will answer those questions, but I cannot like initiate, you know, the talk, uh, and then when I'm, you know, shading, for example, it's whatever, I can like talk freely and I'm not that like stressed. You know, yeah, but you know people are different. If they want to talk, they can, yeah, yeah, and you will just answer whatever question they have, Exactly yeah and, as you know, and then At a shop we talk about like all the weird stuff. It can be any weird topic.
Speaker 2:
Right. Working in a shop environment it's very different because you tend to get into other people's conversations and their clients conversation with the other artists and people make Dirty jokes sometimes or whatever.
Speaker 1:
A lot of the time. Yeah, depends on the kind of shop you're in.
Speaker 2:
Unappropriate, yeah often, which is like I think, makes clients feel like they're part of a Special club you know when they're in that exchange between tattoo artists being snarky at each other. Yeah and it's not you know. I've guested in places and had that experience and like this is interesting and and in cool or whatever, and it's not you know, but on my own for so long now, like I'm really not used to that anymore. Yeah but you, like, you just moved. What's the big, what's the biggest difference, except the obvious Of you, in your process, being in a shop versus being on your own my commute of five minutes walk. That isn't really nice, it's true.
Speaker 1:
That was the main reason why I moved shops, basically because it was an intentional, because I love old crowd. Yeah, I love everyone there.
Speaker 2:
You could about a house in Hercliotland no.
Speaker 1:
I love living in San Francisco. It's too hot and, like East Bay, everywhere except San Francisco is too hot and I live here. I don't want to move and I love the city Living. I like walking. I don't like driving. I don't even know how to drive actually. Yeah, so like for me, it was always I was ubering a lot and it's like it's up, you know. And so when I saw this location, my current shop For rent, I was like, let me check. I everything worked out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean it's perfect. It is yeah pretty much. It's very you, um. Are you interested in a bigger shop, owning a shop with other tattoo artists working for you? You just want to be on your own by yourself.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I, I'm really bad. I'm like managing people Because I really need everything to be done in a way that I do it and when it's done like differently, it just stresses me out and it's like it's, I don't know, really hard for me to be a boss. Yeah, so I don't want to do that. I'm fine in my own.
Speaker 2:
What about an apprentice? Would you take one on?
Speaker 1:
Definitely not now, because I'm still technically pretty new right. So it's been about two years after I finished my apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:
I mean honestly, people take on apprentices really soon. It's just depends on how you feel and what you're ready for. I was not ready. I've been doing it for 15 years and I wasn't ready until now and I'm about to have my first apprentice.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you can talk about that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I can tell you some insights.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, please. Yeah, but do you? Feel like maybe at some point in the next I don't know another five years, oh no, probably no, no, I don't know.
Speaker 1:
I don't like teaching people to different, because I graduated I went to university to be a teacher, to be an English teacher. That's where I learned English, basically, and I went to school for practice, taught them, taught kids to speak English, etc. And I don't like that. I don't like teaching. It just takes so much from me, it just drains me Like I cannot. Yeah, even speaking of how many clients, do you have a day Like? How many clients do you have a day, for example?
Speaker 2:
On my longer day I might have two full sessions and a touch up. That would be the longest day you should have these days, although there was a day in the last year where I tattooed the family members of a closest friend of mine and I think it was like six of them. Oh God. They're all small tattoos, but it took. I was there till 10.30pm and I was like Dad. I was like I can't even go home right now, like I'm so tired. Just the idea of like getting from the shop to the car to my house was like so yeah, no, that's really really occasional, but yeah, no, it's really tiring Our job is exhausting, exactly, and it's not about even like physical exhaustion.
Speaker 1:
It's a lot of them about like mental exhaustion because, I don't know, I tend to kind of be like a transmitter, I don't know, not a transmitter, but like when you try to understand every person's feelings and you can vibe with them. It's hard yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, oh, what about parenting? That's going to be a big piece of teaching.
Speaker 1:
I don't know that's for you.
Speaker 2:
It's hard. I don't want to think about that, you don't have to.
Speaker 1:
It is hard and, like with an apprentice, it's a lot is at stake, you know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I guess you know I was approached for many years by different folks, like originally you and I, when we first met you also had an apprentice with me and I really had no like I didn't have really much to offer you, so I really couldn't have said yes, it would have been a waste of your time. Old Crow is perfect for you, right Like ending up in a busy walk-in shop with lots of just like people coming in and out big reach. So I was happy that that happened for you. But now that I am, I have a little bit more mental space and like right by, commute is shorter because I was commuting to the city from these bay. Having 15-minute commute is so much nicer. And the person I'm going to apprentice is kind of family. You know, she's the niece of somebody else who I've known for years. You're going to make it harder, I know, but I got to know her and just fell in love with her, you know, and I just was like this young kid is awesome and I just really want her to succeed and I really want to, like, protect her from shop environments. She tried out, she went out, she lives in Neva town right now and she wanted the same one of the summer apprenticeship. Not as it was an apprenticeship, she was going to do the counter for like a big walk-in shop and they treated her like shit. You know, she quit, yeah, and I was like, yeah, this is. I'm glad you got to see it, because that is how your apprenticeship would have otherwise been, and I also was ready for her to say listen, I am going to stay here.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
You know, even though we had made these plans, I was like if she wants to stay there, that's up to her. I wouldn't have no hard feelings at all. But yeah, it's going to change everything. You know, when she gets here and we start, it's going to change her life for sure. It's going to change my life, it's going to change the shop, it's going to change everything.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And I feel like I might be ready for that, because it's been a long time.
Speaker 1:
No it's good. It's good to like when there is some change.
Speaker 2:
Change is good.
Speaker 1:
Even though it's hard. I agree. I agree. Yeah, that's the only way we grow. So obviously in the next five years I don't think I'll be ready for anyone to teach. Yeah, but who knows, maybe, like in 10 years?
Speaker 2:
I mean, you just went through this big change, transitioning from the shop to here, exactly yeah, and you need to really spend time here and settle in.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I really want to, you know, do that. Yeah, because, like I still finalize in all the details in my shop, so I'll be doing the same niche on the windows. As I told you, I'm like I have a lot of things like little things like that that still needs to be, you know, need to be addressed.
Speaker 2:
And I feel like over the course of years, little things pop up again and you're like, oh wait, that has to change or that has to be different, or I have to add this yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, truly yeah. Even like the website. You kind of tweak it all the time. You know, think how it works and what doesn't work. Yeah, you know the newsletter, etc.
Speaker 2:
And in fact, I feel like there's a when you pour energy into the shop, it pours energy back into you, in a way of like, when I pay more attention to the business, I work in the business, I have more clients, I have more interesting projects coming through.
Speaker 1:
Makes sense. Yeah, it's your business. It's like that's how it works, yeah.
Speaker 2:
But like in the wool kind of way, the energy moves. You know I love the way that works.
Speaker 1:
I agree, I agree yeah.
Speaker 2:
And so you also have a part of your businesses like prints, stickers, like pins, things you make. You've been doing that for a long time now. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Like before, I, just you know, started even tattooing and doing that and you have this is like from your illustration background.
Speaker 2:
I assume yeah, and you have. You're selling them online as well, or just in the shop?
Speaker 1:
No, I sell them online. I just currently I don't have all of them listed online, so there is more stuff at the shop, for sure, and I'll have more and I'll upload all of it online. Are you on Etsy or anything? No, I used to be, but then I just got tired of Etsy. Why?
Speaker 2:
tell me more.
Speaker 1:
Because they were changing their policies. They're taking more percentage, etc. Etc. Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2:
Were you selling much on there.
Speaker 1:
I was selling some like not much, like a lot, but it's like, yeah, I sold some stuff. Yeah, Even like the custom tempered tattoos. Yeah, it was fun Like people would choose that option and I would design tempered tattoos for them.
Speaker 2:
That sounds fun.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, like, for example, like presents, like gifts for a wedding, you know, so like people would give them out at their wedding right. Like all day like little.
Speaker 2:
How do you get that printed Like a special company that will print them through? Okay, that's fun. Do you ever do markets like maker markets?
Speaker 1:
I used to. I used to. When I moved to San Francisco I decided to fully merge myself into arts. So I took part in different actual markets, like a lot of different stuff, and I made a bunch of friends, you know, in the art community. But I just don't have time for that anymore because it takes a lot. You have to organize and like me being so picky and like detail oriented and I can't. But, speaking of like art events, I'll be doing open studios, if you know about that program here in the city.
Speaker 2:
I do know they do that. So, you would have your like your paintings and people just come in and look around. Exactly.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, exactly, and Docpatch Open Studios gonna be in November, 18 and 19. So it's gonna be me and I also invited my friends, a couple of my friends, a tourist. So one of them, she paints, she's like an abstract painter. She works with watercolor and like pencil and other mediums. It's really gorgeous. It's like you're immersed in those, like textures of moss and like flowers, etc. Etc. Really beautiful. So it's gonna be her too. And other artists we started going to vibe into that's the word again vibe in together. She's my client. Then we became friends.
Speaker 2:
She's really nice so Listen, like half of the people that I call my friends are used to be clients, so I get it Surely.
Speaker 1:
That's how you make friends and tattooing.
Speaker 2:
Seriously.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, how else you work all the time, right? So she makes jewelry, wire jewelry with stones Really beautiful and also she reads tarot cards.
Speaker 2:
She's really insightful, so you're gonna have them displayed here and your tarot card reading friend is gonna sit and do the readings. Exactly, exactly, cool.
Speaker 1:
So it's gonna be. And also we'll have some fresh flowers a first bookcase Nice From a person who does a pop-up flower shop in the neighborhood. So I talked to them and she'll provide us with some flowers so you will be able to buy them here too.
Speaker 2:
It's been fun. So did you hear that listeners dogpatch. November 18th and 19th open studios. This studio, at the address of 2344 Third Street is gonna have all this amazing stuff. You should come by and buy some art and some flowers.
Speaker 1:
I know, have all the info on my website, my Instagram, etc. Etc.
Speaker 2:
So it's gonna hang there for a while. Your name of the studio is just your name. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm still dealing with Google Maps to put my studio on the map.
Speaker 2:
Google Maps.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah. So I just didn't work yet.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it takes time.
Speaker 1:
It takes time because of the location, I don't know. It's like their system is just ridiculous. I can't really make a video that works for them, so I'll do the signage and then hopefully it works better. So, I'll be on the map, finally, yeah.
Speaker 2:
I hope that happens very soon, because people need to know about this beautiful space. Yeah, everyone should know. Everyone should know Everywhere. Tell the people how they can support your work besides getting tattooed, can they? There are other places online on your website they can buy you art.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, just on my website, that's my Twitter.
Speaker 2:
What's your website? It's wwwmatashaatsosikcom. Yes but, I'll just go on my website.
Speaker 1:
Just go on my Instagram Instagram, you probably will link all that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's.
Speaker 1:
Because my name is really hard to pronounce for most of the people, so I don't expect anyone to it's a very interesting last name.
Speaker 2:
It's your husband's last name, right? Yeah, it is, it's Yiddish, it's Yiddish. I was wondering that. Yeah, he's Jewish. No, why does he have a Yiddish last name? We don't know.
Speaker 1:
It's just like a secret. Last in January.
Speaker 2:
His family doesn't? They don't know. No, no, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1:
I don't know, maybe someone got Introducing a family or whatever Like somebody married somebody or adopted.
Speaker 2:
I wonder if you have somebody that adopted Definitely?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:
How do we know he's not Jewish?
Speaker 1:
He's not. Weirdly, I have some Like a little little percentage of Ashkenazi in me, but now I have a proper last name, I guess.
Speaker 2:
Yes, you do. It's a great last name. I love it. I love it. It's very memorable, can't really walk by it.
Speaker 1:
You can try to pronounce it, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it's translated as a little bird, it's a type of bird.
Speaker 2:
In Yiddish and Yiddish, in German and it's like Hebrew and German, I don't speak Yiddish, yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's kind of considered, I think, a dead language in many ways, like people do speak it, but you have to learn it very specifically. It's not like you can go to a country and learn to speak Yiddish. No, it's very community oriented language, exactly, exactly. I know somebody who learned it, like on purpose, as an adult to speak it and now teaching it to her kids.
Speaker 1:
Oh, it's good yeah, why not? Yeah, it's really interesting that Yiddish is really deeply integrated into Russian. So especially in the kind of underground scene, criminal kind of scene, weirdly, Because I guess a lot of the Jewish people were put into prisons and hulag and whatnot, Like years, years ages, I don't know, before even the revolution, etc. So a lot of the words they have Yiddish origin, like a lot of the kind of slang words the colloquial slang of that.
Speaker 2:
It's really interesting.
Speaker 1:
So when you start kind of digging into that, yeah, like patsan.
Speaker 2:
That's the Yiddish word.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's pats, it's a.
Speaker 2:
I had no idea. Tiny peepy. They call it like little whizz yeah yeah, yeah, I had no idea, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:
And there are like a lot of words like that, wow.
Speaker 2:
You learn new things every day.
Speaker 1:
Or like a kazurni. It means like a kasharni. Yeah, some kosher.
Speaker 2:
I just thought it meant like cards, like when you play cards, and it's a winning card.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but it's like a winning, it's a good card. Oh, so it's kosher card, yeah, oh, interesting, so like it's. There's a myriad of words like that. I'm just really into all linguistics in general. It's not even about Yiddish, it's how did you learn this stuff?
Speaker 2:
I?
Speaker 1:
don't know.
Speaker 2:
Is there a specific book?
Speaker 1:
No, it just whatever. I hear someone told me etc. I'm just like a collection of weird facts I usually don't remember like a nice information that like I don't know I need to remember. I just remember some stuff that no one needs from me to here.
Speaker 2:
I mean, this makes so much sense that you love Paxton Gate.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, right, yeah, exactly so. Just a little, like a little, a lot of the collection of little things, like a curiosity, uh cabinet. Basically it's me, I'm a curiosity cabinet a curio cabinets.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, when you go to LA next time you go to LA, you have to go visit the Museum of Jurassic Technology. Okay, have you ever heard of it? No, it's this little museum in the venus area. You would not know it unless you. It's like not the beach area, it's like the venus. That's like where you would just drive by and never notice anything and it's just like this museum of random shit. It's so odd and quirky and like really fascinating, like there's a whole display. My favorite thing there is you come to the stable and there's um, those things where you look at looking things really closely microscope, microscopes and under them you see these glass plates and you just see dots. If you're looking, but when you look in the microscope it's a painting made out of butterfly wing dust oh my god, it's so weird yeah it's so weird and they're beautiful. They're like flowers and birds, like these paintings, but when you just look at it, it's nothing like somebody took, I think, like a hair from, like an animal, and like put them together it's crazy glue them down like it's wild and like other things. They have weird skulls and like just odd machinery that is like really old and does really weird, unnecessary now things that's exactly what I love yeah, I think you love it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, venus actually is the area that they're where we usually stay when we go to the lake great and every solo lady in the lake. That's the best area of. La kind of or silver lake is pretty good too because, look, I love everything that's uh, on the water, by the beach, you know. So you can go to a beach in venus. It's not necessarily that you must, you know, but it's, it's nice to ocean is the best you love the ocean, but you grew up with rivers and lakes yeah, yeah but you like really love the ocean because I'm like I still love her for rivers and lakes.
Speaker 2:
To the ocean. I love the ocean, but for rivers and lakes.
Speaker 1:
I like deep water. I'm not afraid of uh, you know, deep water and waves. Yeah, I don't know the sharks, whatever, they didn't bother me obviously.
Speaker 2:
If I go to australia, for example, I would think about that I mean there's sharks in hawaii too, yeah I mean, we have sharks here, and we have sharks right, but like I feel like I recently heard of a about a shark attack in hawaii and like a regular tourist beach and the sharks might be pissed at tourists.
Speaker 1:
I understand speaking of hawaii, let's help to maui.
Speaker 2:
Yes, yes, please send money to maui and don't go there, don't go to her hawaii right now. Indigenous people do not want, do not want tourists to come and yeah and um of people who send stuff, not just money.
Speaker 1:
Don't send just clothes. People need more stuff than not necessarily just whatever stuff that you're trying to get rid, of right?
Speaker 2:
yeah, really send money. If you have a little money, just send money. It's the most helpful thing let's do that yeah good call um. Well, I'll ask you a couple more questions. One do you have primary art influences in the world of art currently? That you can think of that influence the way, or maybe other tattoo artists that you think are influential in your work?
Speaker 1:
I don't know. Good question. I follow a lot of tattoo artists. Um, first of all, I'm so bad with names, I don't remember names, but I follow a lot of them and I'm really inspired by everyone or styles, maybe they're specific. Yeah, I really do kind of illustrative and graphic tattoos and designs where lines really the focus. That's basically how I tend to do my work, really line oriented. Sure, I'm amazed by all kind of different styles, everyone, everything can be beautiful in any kind of styles, like new, traditional or like real realism or, I don't know, geometric etc, etc, everything. But yeah, I tend to focus more on illustrative art, same in like fine art. So I love illustration, kind of story-based stuff. You know that's something is like, you see, like a little story that you can come up with. Oh, look at that, a piece of art, a little fox on the forest kind of a story kind of well, look at my, oh my I know friends.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, that's totally I I love. I love you taste in art.
Speaker 1:
Yeah but it's really kind of uh, what is? Um, it's less abstract. I'm amazed by people who can do abstract. I, unfortunately, I tried, I cannot. I I mean something, but you know, can bounce off of like a plot or like idea yeah, it's a very specific mindset, for sure, yeah, you know somebody who has a lot of abstract, so very different mindset and the very different client was into that kind of thing yeah uh, so less, less abstract for me, more stories uh, yeah, do you have big plans for your own body suit? um, we want to work on my legs with hannah. Um, I really want to put something like um our nevol, kind of or article, kind of something on the back of my legs. Um, that's your next plan.
Speaker 2:
Do you have any appointment for that to start that?
Speaker 1:
not yet. Okay, started talking about that. We just need to kind of work more on the idea what exactly we're working at is it going to be like the girls, like the moho girls, or? No more like the ornaments that you can find and amuka girls so the paint dance, right, so all the like ornamental stuff that's around you know, yeah, the the paint dance stuff like that does. Yeah, uh, we'll see, I don't know. Um, I don't have much space on me, so my arms are full, my back is full.
Speaker 2:
There's a little space. I see space tiny, tiny like little space.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, do you want to fill in it?
Speaker 2:
yeah, I mean I told you I'm happy to tattoo you in general and also like um trade for lulu sitting.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I have uh to work with you uh as maybe taking some like uh russian patterns you know and put here and there like khloma, yeah, for example, yeah I love that. Yeah, I knew that. So I I'm thinking of that. Maybe you did some color. So, uh, me personally, like in my tattoo practice, uh, I don't use a lot of color, just sometimes, just like occasional pops of color. I tend to do more black and gray but you like having color exactly but on myself my tattoos are like I have a lot of color, like it's just mixed, like on different people.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I'm kind of going the opposite way. I have a lot of color, but I'm going black because you see, hannah's been doing this half sleeve and it's yeah, there's one session left in the back, but now I don't know what to do with the rest of it. Yeah, but I'm like black all the way for me at this point. I have to say it gets much hotter in the sun like this. Yeah, it gets way hotter than this.
Speaker 1:
So what do you do with that? Do you cover your arms?
Speaker 2:
just what it is not a big fan of like sitting in the sun anyway, you know me neither, yeah, I just I get bored, as I told you. Yeah, I don't like boring what's your relationship to social media and the fact that we now have to be, and not only tattoo? Artists but also videographers I hate it. Photographers, I don't like it what you have to right, you must. So how do you make it doable? For yourself assistant. Oh, you have an assistant, okay my sister okay, my assistant yeah, for people who didn't know, bad um and she posts for you yeah, she does, she does all your social media, all my social media so wait, when you are watching my stories and you like my stories, is that you?
Speaker 1:
are her? No, she usually posts. Yeah, she doesn't kind of interact with people.
Speaker 2:
You know.
Speaker 1:
I wonder about that when I like interact with people who clearly have assistants if it's actually them who I'm actually interacting with, or there's a reason why we don't necessarily advertise the fact that, like yeah, she does all of that, or like answer some of the emails for the specific reason, but that makes sense, though.
Speaker 2:
You know the email thing, and also if people are just like hey, I'm the assistant, great, you know, it's just when I'm interacting with people who maybe have really big accounts and I'm like are you actually talking to me, or is it not you? I know I don't know, I don't pretend that, that I don't like you know. If I know that it's not them, it's fine yeah I feel you uh know it's me.
Speaker 1:
I like your stories. Uh, it's, it's me who checks all the stories for people at night or when I don't want to sleep, and I just check random stories and like people I follow. Uh, yeah, but like she does a lot of that and also the newsletter. It's basically like a collaboration, so she creates like a um, like a general thing, right, and then we both together we go and kind of change stuff, move around etc, etc. But yeah, I don't know what I have to do without her, for sure. Uh, I know what I would have been done. I just I would just answer emails and tattoo and probably that's it, because that's what I used to do yeah back in the day just to be listened to.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, not totally, but you know what you were saying, like how you're particular about how things are done and that's your sister's. You can trust her.
Speaker 1:
I'm sure I could find somebody to trust, but having things look and be exactly how I want them is important to me, so I mean you first have to have to understand what exactly you want and like how things done, right. And then you just start with little things. For example, they can post instagram feed holders for you, or like do a newsletter, so something that you can give control over, right. And and then maybe emails, because they can be more personal, right, yeah. Or like, for example, reply to initial inquiries. So, because when people email, and how do you reply? It's usually, uh, I work like this, this and that if you want to set a consultation, you can do it like this.
Speaker 2:
So again, in general, I mean I literally have a little. Yeah, totally like here's my schedule city link, here's my zoom link, like I'll hopefully talk to you soon yeah, exactly, follow something that is a less stressful.
Speaker 1:
You can definitely let other people do it for you.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, but I'm glad to hear you have help oh, I wouldn't be able to do it without help.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, we do too much, and that's what I'm saying, like, I hate social media in that. In those regards, we have to do all of it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean having your own business, especially in this day and age where there's just so many of us and there's so much saturation of all kinds of content online. It's, you know, and I'm realizing that, like instagram, isn't there for our, our good. It's not like here's this, like free tool for you, you're welcome. It's like they want us to pay them nothing to push the content right. Nothing is actually free, but I am using the free version of it yeah and that means that only like 40 people get to see what I post, even though you know I have 5 000 followers.
Speaker 1:
But it's what it is yeah, I have like even less followers, uh, you know, than that. Uh, I get a lot of clients hitting me through instagram. That's great. It's like I also google me that amazes me I hope people like come through different channels and every time that they you know, oh, I google to you I was like it means we did something right.
Speaker 2:
Yes, you know, my sister and the sio, that's good yeah, yeah, because it works yeah you know we can do better, for sure, but like something worked would you say you get how a percentage of the clients from, like, first timers and what percentage is from people who know, people you've tattooed and people who repeats and all that I have a lot of repeats yeah for sure, um, but I do get a lot of new inquiries yeah, and what about from just community outreach, basically like somebody's? like I saw you know this person in the shop and I asked them who did their tattoo? Like, do you get a fair amount of those two?
Speaker 1:
oh, I still get a lot of people from old crowd.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, cool nice thanks to them yes, thanks to them. I mean anybody right, everybody spreading the word about, exactly because a good thing or like I have a lot of clients who recommend me to their friends, family, etc.
Speaker 1:
Etc. Yeah, yeah. And then, like you know, relatives like, oh, like this person got a tattoo from you and they really, they're really happy, so they think that you know we can work together, etc.
Speaker 2:
Etc yeah, I think one of the things that works so well for you is the niche like you are very like your work looks like it's your work like there's not a mistake there of like you have this kind of delicate fine line work and then you have this big ball piece like you don't? It probably looks like it's belongs to one person. I think that's really wonderful for for like developing your business as a it is helpful.
Speaker 1:
But like, obviously, if you ask people who specialize in different styles, they're, you know, like to do that more. That's me different styles or her.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's true, yeah she likes that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, basically she gets a class who you know have some specific ideas and who that needs to be done, you know. Yeah, by her, yeah, yeah. And if you want to like something fine line and a lot of plans and your pet portrait, you can come to me mm-hmm pet portraits.
Speaker 2:
Come to natasha I love that.
Speaker 1:
I really do wonderful.
Speaker 2:
So what's a small thing that's been making you happy lately?
Speaker 1:
I was thinking about the question that you ask people. Uh, for me it's uh usually like little routines. I like get a hot chocolate every morning. You know also good flowers every saturday, for example. I'm really into flowers and plants, so I have a subscription, uh flower subscription yeah, for here or for the home.
Speaker 2:
Okay, for the home for here.
Speaker 1:
I go to a nearby flower store or to that pop-up that I told you about and get flowers for the studio where do you put them? I have a couple of uh flowers. Yeah, just I didn't have time to print some flowers today, where they usually do have some uh yeah. So those little things are like coming home, uh, after a successful nice tattoo day and sitting on the sofa with my husband and having dinner and looking some stupid tv show like ridiculous little routines, yeah or like when he picks me up, uh, from my job, you know, because, uh, what we used to do is when I worked at else grow, sometimes, when we had time, uh, he would pick me up, but with traffic it's like crazy, right. So he would pick me up and we go home together. He drives, he would drive us home. But now, since I'm walking home, I was like Dima, uh, I'm done, you know, and you can come by and pick me up, and he does, you know.
Speaker 2:
And I was like so this man would drive across the bay to pick you up in the east bay? Yeah, and drive you home, instead of being like, take Bart, I'll pick you up from Bart no, I didn't just barred at all that's amazing. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. He's obsessed with you. He's a keeper, he's a keeper. Thank you so much for coming in the podcast, letting me come and have a look at your studio thank you I really appreciate you and the sweet, lovely, wonderful work you do in the world. Thank you so much and having you as a person to um give my particular clients too, oh yeah, we started working on their project.